MUSLIMS TAKING OVER EUROPE

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by esperanza, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. complex_man
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    complex_man Junior Member

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    I agree with you on this. also i would like to know how did you claim that many hadiths in bukhari and muslim are incorrect. can you please elaborate or give an example ???
  2. Mr. India
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    Mr. India New Member

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    The FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) of Allah is supposed to be a role model for us (the whole of mankind), but how can I follow him or learn from his role if his guidance is not available to me at all. Will Allah ever ask His servants to do something impossible (follow some one whose sayings are not available at all in authentic form)? There are many verses in the Quran in which Allah says obey Me and my messenger. .
  3. sister herb
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    :salam2:

    It seems that Talibans are not taking over Europe but muslims whose just like to live as normal life as others. Create they family, put they children to schools and get they own life and of course spread islam to others.
  4. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Brother,

    Excellent response. So basically the hadeeths provide the blueprint for us.

    My question becomes this: The line of narration is exact. The hadeeths were complied after a very strenuous process of authentication. In a sense as many or more were thrown out as were kept.

    Where is the balance in faith. When in doubt we know we have to take Quran over the hadeeths. What is the process we use to understand the hadeeth as an individual. This is a serious question. What is the individual required to do when he is in doubt. I know this is a question of Fiqh.


    Sister Harb,

    A Believer may live in Europe and still love that which Allah loves.
  5. Just a Guy
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    Just a Guy Reinventing Myself

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    "I will to my Lord be true and faithful, and love all which He loves, and shun all which He shuns."

    This a part of an old medieval oath of fealty which was inspired by religious texts.
  6. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Assalaamu `alaykum

    Yusuf- May Allaah forgive you for your extreme ignorance and guide you and all of us to the straight path.

    To many it may seem a bit harsh, but the truth is something that stands out from falsehood. How sad is it to see muslims mouthing around about the religion of Islaam without knowledge.

    I am very sorry to say, and I am completely honest- Yusuf you are extremely ignorant... which means it gives you completely no right to 'interpret' the Qur'aan and sunnah and it definately gives you no right to teach your disgusting distortions- and I hope Allaah overlooks you for your ignorance.

    Allaah said in Soorah al- A`raaf: 33 "Say, 'My Lord has only forbidden immoralities – what is apparent of them and what is concealed – and sin, and oppression without right, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down authority, and that you say about Allah that which you do not know.'"

    If one was to notice, Allaah mentioned speaking about Him without knowledge after shirk and due to this reason- scholars such as Ibn al-Qayyim mentioned that it is worse than shirk to speak about Allaah without knowledge.

    Thus, I warn you Yusuf to not speak about Allaah or His Religion or His Messenger without knowledge.


    Sorry but according to your own definition of understanding the Qur'aan and Sunnah- you have made 'your' Islaam into an ideology.

    When did Allaah or the Messenger of Allaah ever teach us that we must understand the Qur'aan and Sunnah with accordance to 'Logic'. Worst of all you are not even using logic in a general sense. Indeed my logic is able to appreciate the stoning of the aduleterer or the adulteress (in an Islaamic state)- and so did the logic of the Messenger of Allaah and so did the logic of the Sahaabah and the righteous predecessors. So, the problem is with your logic and intellect- and even you are basing your logic on some modernist website... thus blind following some random so-called modernist 'scholar'.

    When the Messenger of Allaah :saw2: was on his night journey- he went from Makkah to Jerusalem in one night and he led salaah in Masjid al-Aqsa and on top of that he led all the Prophets in prayer (Prophets who have all died).

    When the Kuffaar of the Quraysh went to Abu Bakr and narrated this incident about the Prophet :saw2: going to Jerusalem and asked him about his thoughts... did he Al-Siddeeq, Abu Bakr say that it is illogical for that to happen? No, rather he believed in it. After this incident he was praised by the Prophet :saw2: and we all are aware of this incident.

    So, throw your logic behind your back and come back to the saved group. The group that has been promised paradise.

    The Messenger of Allaah :saw2: said: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.”[Al-Tirmidhi]

    Thus, one understands the Qur'aan and Sunnah according to how the Sahaabah understood the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

    In matters of faith to matters of worship- in every single thing... we understand the Qur'aan and Sunnah according to how the Sahaabah understood.

    Allaah said in Soorah al-Tawbah: 100 "And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajiroon (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajiroon) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success."


    Allaah mentions about those who follow the Sahaabah in faith- the first pillar of Islaam... let alone acts of worship.

    Allaah also said in Soorah al-Nisaa': 115 "And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination."


    We know very well that the believers at the time of this revelation were the Sahaabah, RadiyAllaahu `anhum (May Allaah be pleased with them)


    Are you a Hadeeth scholar? You simply declare it to be not Saheeh because it contradicts your own logic. So, if an authentic narration does not contradict the Qur'aan according to your logic.. but it contradicts according to my logic- then am I allowed to throw that hadeeth behind my back? Or a third hadeeth may not contradict to both our logic, but it contradicts one of our memeber's logic... can he/she throw that hadeeth away?

    So, according to whose logic is this religion based on? Your Logic? My Logic? Or Joe's Logic?

    I don't care if you reply to any of my post- but I really want you to reply to this one.

    The verses refer to the person who commits Zinaa and is unmarried. Zinaa' is used for both fornication and adultery in Islaamic terms.

    All the scholars have agreed that the punishment for the Adulterer and the Adulteress is stoning to death. You come to me after 1400 years- indicating that the religion has not been preserved?

    The Messenger of Allaah :saw2: said: "Indeed Allaah will not cause my Ummah to agree upon an error" [Al-Tirmidhi]


    The Prophet :saw2: also said: “A group of my followers will always remain on the right path.”[Al-Bukhaari]

    Are you saying that a group of the followers of the Prophet :saw2: failed to emerge untill after 1400 years? Then, surely the hadeeth has been proven wrong.

    So you have 3 choice here:

    1) Accept the fact that you are wrong and accept what the Muslim Ummah was upon for the last 1400 years.

    2) Throw away all these narrations too and stick to your distorted image of al-Islaam... and thus pushing you far away from Allaah and increasing you in your pride and stubborness

    3) Clearly state that Allaah failed to preserve this religion.

    Choice number 1 is best for your hereafter and inshaa'Allaah will lead you to eternal bliss.

    Choice number 3 is the worst for you and most definately guarantee you a place in the hell-fire for eternity

    Choice number 2 is a slippery slope that may lead you to choice number 3 at a later stage. The choice in itself is heresy and you are most definately deserving to be punished by Allaah in the hereafter- as you have deeply innovated in the religion.

    As a side note: What do you say about this ayah?

    "Cut off the (right) hand of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allah. And Allah is All-Powerful, All-Wise." [Soorah al-Maa'idah: 38]

    Surely that ayah is "barbaric" according to secular laws- shall we throw this ayah out of the Qur'aan? Be warned- if you do... you have clearly apostated.

    It is the same Qur'aan in which Allaah said:

    "Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [Soorah aal-`Imraan: 31]

    The authentic sunnah is revelation just like the Qur'aan, as Allaah said in Soorah al-Najm: 3-4

    "Nor does he speak from [his own] desires. It is not but a revelation revealed"


    The Prophet :saw2: said: “Verily I have been given the Qur’aan and something similar to it along with it (i.e the sunnah). But soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch with a full stomach, and he will say, ‘You should adhere to this Qur’aan: what you find that it says is permissible, take it as permissible, and what you find it says is forbidden, take it as forbidden.’ But indeed, whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.” [Al-Tirmidhi]

    Allaah also said: "And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran), so that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. [Soorah al-Nahl: 44] "


    Your strict criteria? Mr. Self-Proclaim Hadeeth Scholar... what if a hadeeth fits 'your strict criteria' but not 'my strict criteria'.

    Do I throw the hadeeth away? Or do I accept it- because you want all of us to blind follow your logic and intellect?

    With their corrupt hadeeth collection? May I ask- do you even accept any hadeeth from Bukhaari? If yes- you are corrupted too.

    Whatever you say... How many hadeeth have you memorized in arabic? 1? How many with it's chain of narrators? 1?
    Or actually have you ever seen a chain of narration?

    You have no right to speak about Imaam al-Bukhaari rahimahullaah.

    Sorry to say- but you are the most ignorant in this thread. I hope you put some effort in seeing the truth. And I ask Allaah to guide you to the truth.

    Wassalaamu `alaykum
  7. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Brother Tariq,

    How could we teach our brother to come to the correct understanding. What is the fundamental error that has blocked his thinking. This is serious. It is almost like starting over. Thus we do not attack the learning process but we all gain from it.

    Help me with this.

    We have a thread on Muslims taking over Europe. Many have viewed concerns. What would be a way to incorporate hadeeth and supporting Quran to answer this concern. What is the appropriate response from the scholars.
  8. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    Are you trying to say we created hadith out of the air ? There is something called "chain of narrations" and that is passing on from generation to generation.

    Brother Saif, I am alright now, healing fast. Will tell you later what happened. Insha Allah.
  9. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    People like him make me feel more and more, how much an Islamic state is required to stop such outrageous propaganda which will mislead many innocent Muslims.
  10. sister herb
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    :salam2:

    This is what they afraid in Europe:

    [yt]kWuiOd7rOL8&feature=player_embedded[/yt]
  11. sister herb
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    This video doesn´t mention all those originally westerners whose convert to Islam.

    :SMILY259:
  12. strive-may-i
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    strive-may-i Junior Member

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    Phew... hijacked thread!

    :salam2:

    Firstly Muslims taking over europe is a propaganda. Now to this propaganda unless one is careful you add fuel, that fuel will burn... And more often than not, you are the fuel. We should learn not to shoot at our own foot. do not even dream to achieve that which no Prophet achieved, is what am told .

    And someone feels a hadees is wrong? And speaks of proving it??
    So does the someone know what is right. Did someone arrive at it, after digging deep, by reaching to source of truth?? or was it someones ego??? Then let someone stand there among the most knowledgable, and talk to the most knowledgable, put the theory to litmus test. Let the council of the most Deeni, give a ruling. Bukhari stood scrutiny of best of critical analysis...and hence saheeh. Unlike Scientific discovery, there is a very less likeliness of the saheeh hadees being refuted. Curious, go research put the hours. Should one feel hadees is wrong, let him go ahead, do what suits him, and for those wanting to follow this someone, wait till you know he has made to heaven... Thats how I see it. Bukhari arrived at his compilation of hadees after applying a rigorous methodology Of logic and proof. A spoof..... is harmful [Yes even my style of writing right now can have same effect... and am using it as an example of spoof]

    ...For More than 1000+ years Proven hadees compilation of Bukhaari Yes
    ...For less than 10 posts from the unknown A BIG NO

    A forum like this is not the platform to prove or disprove a hadees. Protect yourself, Iblees always is in prowl.

    Take care!!
  13. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    :salam2:

    Propaganda it is not. It is mathematics.
  14. kashif_nazeer
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    kashif_nazeer ~~~Alhamdulillah~~~

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    :salam2:

    I think the atmosphere has been created by a certain group of people who hold prejudice in their hearts.People in Europe should be made to understand,that Islam is not to be dreaded and it's not here for oppression.Efforts should be made to create this awareness.
    Interaction of Europe with Muslims,was one of the factors that lead to Renaissance and also many similar Scientific and Social revolutions in Europe.


    :wasalam:
  15. sister herb
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    :salam2:

    This main task of we, original European muslims. Problem is that most of Europeans doesn´t know even they own history.
  16. kashif_nazeer
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    :wasalam:
    This problem is at many places.People don't know the background and that leads to building of stereotypes.That is why it is important to spread awareness.I think a lot of work is being done via internet and other dawah resources,still many people are unaware.
  17. Just a Guy
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    Just a Guy Reinventing Myself

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    That's the video I was talking about, sister.
  18. sister herb
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    :salam2:

    It is not threat to Europe but new challenge.
  19. harqalada
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    I think that Muslim dominance in parts of Europe is definitely feasible within a few decades. While European culture is indeed very secular, it is quickly demising. The economy is in shambles and the old (secular) way is failing before our eyes. There is no other system of thought present in Europe at this time besides Islam, and I think it is very possible that because of this, people will turn to it. When old systems fail, people look for something new -- and in Europe that will be Islam.
  20. YusufN
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    Here is a list of Hadith do you mind clearing them up for me? Keep in mind these come from "Shahih al-Bhukari" and "Shahih Muslim" which there is no need to follow...


    1. Miracles of the Prophet.

    Bhukari states that Muhammad (pbuh) preformed miracles.

    (Bhukari:Volume 4, Book 56, Number 779)
    ---------------------------------------
    Narrated 'Abdullah:
    We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Apostle(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Apostle(sallallahu alaiyhi wassallam) , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).

    This goes against the Quran as it states that Muhammad :saw: never preformed miracles.

    (Quran 13:7: And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner, and for every people is a guide.)


    2. The Prophet's Intercession.

    Muslim claims the Prophet :saw: has the ability of intercession.

    (Muslim: Book 4: Number 747)
    ----------------------------
    “‘Abdullah b. Amr b. al-As reported:
    Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When you hear the Mu’adhdhin, repeat what he says, then invoke a blessing on me, for everyone who invokes a blessing on me will receive ten blessings from Allah; then beg from Allah al-Wasila for me, which is a rank in Paradise fitting for only one of Allah’s servants, and I hope that I may be that one. If anyone who asks that I be given the Wasila, he will be assured of my intercession.

    Nobody can intercession as evidence from this verse...

    (Quran 2:254: O you who have believed, spend from that which We have provided for you before there comes a Day in which there is no exchange and no friendship and no intercession. And the disbelievers - they are the wrongdoers.)


    3. Talking to the Dead


    (Volume 2: Book 23: Number 452)
    --------------------------------
    Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
    The Prophet looked at the people of the well (the well in which the bodies of the pagans killed in the Battle of Badr were thrown) and said, "Have you found true what your Lord promised you?" Somebody said to him, "You are addressing dead people." He replied, "You do not hear better than they but they cannot reply."

    Can the dead hear us? Let's look at the Quran...

    (Quran 27:80: Indeed, you will not make the dead hear, nor will you make the deaf hear the call when they have turned their backs retreating.)

    4. ALLAH CAN BE SEEN? (astaghfiruallah)

    No defence for Bhukari here...

    (Volume 1, Book 10, Hadith 547)
    -------------------------------
    Narrated Jarir bin 'Abdullah:
    We were with the Prophet on a full moon night. He looked at the moon and said, "You will certainly see your Lord as you see this moon, and there will be no trouble in seeing Him. So if you can avoid missing (through sleep, business, etc.) a prayer before the rising of the sun (Fajr) and before its setting ('Asr) you must do so." He (the Prophet ) then recited the following verse "And celebrate the praises Of Your Lord before The rising of the sun And before (its) setting".

    Can Allah be seen? Let's see the Quran for the answer...

    (Quran 6:102-103: That is Allah , your Lord; there is no deity except Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Disposer of all things. Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted.)

    Do you really think our Prophet :saw: would say such a thing?


    5. Quran easy to forget?


    (Bhukari:Volume 6, Book 61, Hadith Number 550)
    -----------------------------------------
    Narated By Abdullah:
    The Prophet said, "It is a bad thing that some of you say, 'I have forgotten such-and-such verse of the Qur'an,' for indeed, he has been caused (by Allah) to forget it. So you must keep on reciting the Qur'an because it escapes from the hearts of men faster than camel do."

    Why does this contradict with the Quran?

    (Quran 54:17: And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?)

    6. Killing of Apostates

    (Bhukari: Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57)
    ---------------------------------------
    Narrated 'Ikrima:
    Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

    Let’s see what the Quran says about this…

    (Quran: 5:54: O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.)

    (Quran 2:256: Let there be no compulsion in religion. : Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. )

    Does it mention killing?

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