Question: Was revolting against Gaddafi legitimate according to Islam?

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by MohammedMaksudul, Sep 6, 2011.

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  1. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    :salam2:

    What makes Gaddafi an apostate ? How is Gaddafi different from Ben Ali, Mubarrak and Saleh? Or are they the same ? If they are different, does that mean the revolutionaries in Tunisia, Egypt, etc did wrong rebelling against them ? And yes, clearly the rebellion is not to establish Islamic Shariah. You can not establish shariah by alliance the one who rejects Islam.

    and ^^ agreed with sister Aapa.
  2. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    :wasalam:

    why are you leading this discussion, what is your purpose?

    It is simple, if you do not rule by what Allah says (Shariah) then you are either a kaffar or a fasiqoon.

    End of discussion.
  3. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    Brothers,

    Lets get to some basic definitions. What do we mean by rule. What do we understand to mean revolution. What are the attributes of a good ruler and bad/oppressive ruler. What do we define oppression to be.

    Having clear terminology from an Islamic perspective would give us an anchor on how to proceed in this discussion without emotionalism.

    We have illustrations from the Quran and Sunna.

    What scenarios can we extrapolate an understanding into what is going on. Islam gives us the simple solution. What other situations were similar.

    We are honing in on one specific set of circumstances. Lets step back and review this from a purely Islamic point of view.
  4. bari
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    bari Junior Member

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    :salam2:
    Afasy made a strong dua against qaddafy, please find it in youtube.Po Pop Pp
  5. bari
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    bari Junior Member

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    :salam2:
    Bukhari was not available in Libya, a known person to me carried Bukhari, was put in jail by qaddafy, and he did not rule by the book of Allah. Revolt against him is justified. Our shaikh, was making dua in ramadhan for removal of qaddafy, Allah gave Libyan people respite.
  6. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam walaikum,

    That is not the question I asked.

    I want to know what defines a ruler. Do we even have rulers today according to Islam.
  7. sabina isa
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    sabina isa Junior Member

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    I think the question is not if it is legitimate, but why is raised as question. Motivation seems ridiculuous, and muslims are ridiculuously doing kufars game. The entire issue is not at all islamic, is an symptom used by USA media, and we are fullishly trying to treat it islamically. I wonder why muslims killed their ruler Sadam Husein in an worlwidely video. The case is not at all different, is even much less serious, few people had personal problem with him, here entire nation does not want him, how on Earth he has a afce to sit in that position. It is unislamic to desire a position in first place, but to stay in position without the desire of your own nation, is disgusting. The last thing for our nations is leaders of his like....
  8. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    My purpose is to know what made Gaddafi a kaafir. You can not rebel against a Fasiq ruler, can you ? And I want to know how are the other ousted rulers different from Gaddafi ?

    If you want to present your opinion then do so with enough evidences.
  9. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    Show me who rules by the law of Allaah today ?
  10. MohammedMaksudul
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    MohammedMaksudul May Allah Forgive us

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    You said, if a nation does not want a ruler then it is illegitimate for him to sit in the position and that basically gives the people of the nation the right to rebel against him ? Please proof your view with evidence from the Quran, Sunnah and Islamic history. If you read the first few posts of this thread, you would know that it is not allowed to rebel against an oppressive ruler.
  11. sabina isa
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    Brother there is the proof from sunnah:

    Volume 3 of Bukhari, Book 36, Number 462 :
    Narrated by Abu Musa
    I went to the Prophet with two men from Ash-ari tribe. I said (to the Prophet), "I do not know that they want employment." The Prophet said, "No, we do not appoint for our jobs anybody who demands it earnestly."

    Hope that clarifies my statement better

    Assalam
  12. sclavus
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    sclavus Junior Member

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    Sis, your have tons of ahadith that proof beyond any doubt that rebelling against an opressive Muslim ruler is forbidden. Why don't you quote them and try to use them to prove your point?

    Do you want me to re-quote them? They are mentioned in the first posts of this thread.
  13. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    Fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter what any of you think of him or any other ruler. You reaching a conclusion will not affect them at all. You calling them kaffir if they are not will put you out of Islam but if they are it doesn't matter cuz nothing happen to them by you saying so. Unless you are the people in those states ready to go out and fight and are asking about this then it makes sense, otherwise it's just a waste of time. what will happen will happen...
  14. sclavus
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    I agree with you, takfeer is dangerous business.

    But every Muslim has the duty to learn how to deal with these matters like did the salaf. Whether they reside in those countries or not. They have to learn correct knowledge and take sides wherever they might be. That'll save their souls and their own countries.
  15. islamirama
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    islamirama www.netmuslims.com

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    Yes, i agree but no point beating a dead horse. Sufficient information has been already provided in this thread to let us know where they stand in terms of Islam. So why drag the thread along just for the sake of keep it going?
  16. sabina isa
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    Brother, you are right for the moment when the revolt started. I was referring at the development of event. One thing is for people to not follow rules of islam, but is more for their rulers to try to see if is their counteract is islamic. Before there were muslims that rejected ruling positions, now there are the ones that do not leave them. I dread that Libya would follow the fate of Iraq as it is going. Libya need be saved, before outer nations take advantage of our failures in following islam. Ruler can be changed, but rather be chosen with beya, than dictated from UN or USA according to their desires. It is painful how easily we are trapped in the game of the ones that initiate such scenarios. Muslim wisdom and steadfastness would save lives and nations.
    To conclude it, the hadith I quote it refers to current situations, not at the very begining.

    Assalam alaykum
  17. Hatty
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    Hatty Junior Member

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    Dear brother, I appreciate your concerns with regards to the Libyans and Muslims in general. But I noticed that everyone is concerned with the people - if they should rebel or not, what they should do and what they should not. Nobody has discussed the rights, obligation and responsibility of the ruler. Does he has the right to kill innocent people? does he has the right to hire mercenaries to kill his people "i do not consider Qaddafi a Libyan by the way"? Qaddafi was a proper traitor and a puppet, it is not as if they Libyans are losing a patriot.
  18. sabina isa
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    Gaddafi had 42 years in power, people should bring their concerns to beya (which now is voting). They should call for new elections and proceed without rebellion. Yes people do have the right to call a national new election, but truly not to excercise violence against its power. Muslims do solve every issue through beya, according to islam.
  19. Hatty
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    Sister Sabina, sorry my post was directed to brother sclavus. However, I wish it was that straight forward - the Beya. Daffy did not want to allow peaceful transfer of power nor allow beya to take place. He was fighting Islam throughout his time in power. He publicly rejected the sunna, together with other practices that meant to hinder the practice of Islam. He even publicly prayed only 3 units of prayer for the Asr prayer, he performed this same prayer Jahran (not in silence) and he omitted the first 2 words in Surah 112 and he was challenging people to bring him a proof from the Quran that Asr is 4 units of prayers.
  20. um_mustafa
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    um_mustafa sister in Islam

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    Salams, every one has so much to say,
    well living here for the past 22 years and living through this reveloution I can tell you one thing , I, as a muslim have the right to protect myself and my family against a tyrant who wishes to kill, rape and destroy anyone that does not agree with him with his own personal army who publicly worship him , I have lived through it and we never thought that the people of Libya would actual rebel , but Gaddafi , used anti aircraft machines guns on unarmed youths from day one , he sent merceneries to rape our young girls, he gave out drugs to his supports and encouraged them to do unhuman crimes against his own people. He has lied and spread fitna amongst the people of Libya , divied them and making them hate each other, I know many good praticing muslims who because they want to pray Fajr and have a beard have been put in prison as a fret to the state,
    A lot of people suffered tremdously from all kinds of injustices every single day for the last 42 years.
    Our Shk. is a very good practising muslim and he would never of told the people to defend themselves if Gaddafi didn't attack his own people.
    Many people have fought for many reasons, I know if we have fought for the sake of Allah inshallah we will be rewarded for this, also this test has bought many people back to their religion and made them very strong muslims. I have been in Misrata and mashallah all you hear is the Takbir every where you go .
    In the end Allah ta'laa will judge us , alhamdulilah , what path Libya will now go Allah only knows but inshallah I hope and pray it will have a much better future now Gaddafi and his sons are out of the picture.
    w/salams
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