Rapists have visitation right in 31 states

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by Hajjerr, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. Abu-Talha
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    Abu-Talha Brother in Deen

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    rape is not zinah !!!!

    where is your proof from Islam that the son belongs to rapist and he has his rights etc ?


    Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. (Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146)

    Some scholars also say that he is required to pay a mahr to the woman.

    Imam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    In our view the man who rapes a woman, whether she is a virgin or not, if she is a free woman he must pay a “dowry” like that of her peers, and if she is a slave he must pay whatever has been detracted from her value. The punishment is to be carried out on the rapist and there is no punishment for the woman who has been raped, whatever the case. End quote.

    Al-Muwatta’, 2/734
  2. azad.ahmed
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    azad.ahmed Junior Member

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    waalaikumsalam sister,
    ok ...then topic of this thread is women raped by men who rape and then claim rights, and have the legal system abuse her one more time. because he supports he have rights so the women should forgive him for the child or her own peace. here forgiveness from Islam and legal system from America.
  3. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    You missed the boat. If the woman wants child support. She is is the one who has to seek the financial support. For the last time this is not criminal court. It is under family court.

    Brother,

    I understood that hadd to be in the same category as robbery. It is not under zina. Zina is illegal sexual intercourse. It is consensual. Thus it is not taking from someone i.e. stealing. If you go back to what I have written I have used the word restitution. The rapist must in Islam pay restitution. Thus you are saying the same thing I wrote. Who would wish to have the victim punished?
  4. Abu-Talha
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    Abu-Talha Brother in Deen

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    sister i dont know what is your issue with this topic, fear Allah and dont talk without knowledge, rape is consider the same as zinah in punishment, dont play the scholar here, dosnt have to do nothing with robbery

    " Praise be to Allaah.

    Rape is essentially zina (fornication or adultery) and is proven in the same way as zina is proven, which is with four witnesses. The punishment is one hundred lashes if the man was a virgin and stoning if he was previously married.......
    .........................................

    Merely by abducting her he comes under the ruling of “qaati‘ at-tareeq” (lit. bandit); if he commits zina with her (rapes her), that his crime becomes more abhorrent because he has then combined two crimes: zina and haraabah. "

    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/158282/rape

    its zinah for the man that force the women, not for the women-becasue she is forced to do that
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  5. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    Teach me brother, please.

    If a couple commits unlawful sexual intercourse and it is consensual what is the ruling in Islam? Does zina not imply that the two were under carnal knowledge committing an unlawful act?

    If a man/woman rapes another and there is no consensus what is the ruling?

    How can having sex for pleasure be in the same category as rape? Rape is a vicious crime. Zina is sexual pleasure. A person can go to a prostitute and get pleasure.
  6. Abd_Al_Hadi
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    Abd_Al_Hadi لبيك يا الله

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    Good job, brother! Man raping = he committed zinah. Victim of rape = not zinah for the victim, because she/he did not give consent.


    When I think of rape, I picture in my mind a man dragging a helpless woman into a dark alley and doing such disgusting crime. But in reality, not all rape incidents occur such way. What I'd like to know is, what if there's a college party and the girl is drunk and the boy is drunk and he ends up taking advantage of the situation. True, he had done a heinous crime, but the fact that she drank alcohol and made herself vulnerable makes her guilty as well?

    Mind you, I don't know about these things, so someone kindly educate me. jA :)
  7. Hajjerr
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    Hajjerr He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram

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    Salam aleykum

    I belive these explanations are enough and clear.
    I dont see the need for more details and the discusion is now taken to another level, is no point for more as this is not a thread about pleasures or drinking partys, inshallah the justice will be done for every creature and we pray for guidance.
    Allah knows best
  8. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    No, sister. The discussion is not finished.

    In Islam we have answers that do not leaving anyone hanging. The brother has placed rape in the same category as zina. That makes no sense. Zina is lust. It is greed. It is wanting to have something, but both parties agree to it. One can seduce the other. It is the willful acting out by both. It is consensual. They delight in the acting out. Neither party is harming the other physically or psychologically.

    Rape is not consensual. It is harming another being. It is taking what is not to be touched. It is not passion nor lust.

    If rape were zina than it would not fall into a different category of law.

    Brother, even if a co-ed was drunk she did not consent and that is the difference.
  9. Hajjerr
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    Hajjerr He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram

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    Wa aleykum salam

    Is not the brother that puts rape in same category as zina, this is the answer from islam QA and there are more details on that page from the link.

    :salam2:
  10. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Asalamo`Alaykum wa rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

    So, you are made to regret having created this thread. Welcome to the "new" atittude of TTI members, lol!

    hey! don't mind me, I'm having a headache.
  11. Hajjerr
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    Hajjerr He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram

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    Wa aleykum salam wa rahmatulahy wa barakatuh

    Not regret but i think we can all understand some limits, we should anyway, even more when the answers where given and the real subject of the thread was discussed.

    What you mean new atittude ? :) I guess you felt this way sometimes.
    Hope your headache will pass soon inshallah.
  12. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    Sister,

    I want an explanation. We have two different words. We have rape and unlawful sexual intercourse. The brother posted this. It is not sufficient to give me an understanding of how the ruling can be the same. I am not being coy. I would like an answer that defines the difference between the acts. There is no consensus in rape. There is in zina. I just want to how they can be placed in the same category. And they are not. Hence we have the two categories. To place them in the same category makes no sense.

    Sister Seeking Allah's Mercy...why are you being sarcastic? There is no need for sarcasm. I want an answer. There is no debate.

    When people post they must remember some do not seek simple superficial answers.

    So I wait for the brother to respond in a mature manner.
  13. Abd_Al_Hadi
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    Abd_Al_Hadi لبيك يا الله

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    I think you're confusing Nikah with Zinah. They are two different terms for a similar action. One is permitted and the other is haram. Rape is not Nikah, because the rapist is not the lawful husband or wife. Rape falls under the category of Zinah.

    Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, "Allah has written the very portion of Zina which a man will indulge in. There will be no escape from it. The Zina of the eye is the (lustful) look, the Zina of the ears is the listening (to voluptuous songs or talk), the Zina of the tongue is (the licentious) speech, the Zina of the hand is the (lustful) grip, the Zina of the feet is the walking (to the place where he intends to commit Zina), the heart yearns and desires and the private parts approve all that or disapprove it.''
    [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

    If those small things are Zina, imagine the person who actually carries out the action! May Allah shield us!
  14. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    No, I am not confusing nikah with zina. What I am saying is that zina is consensual. When zina is carried out both parties have agreed to enjoin in sexual intercourse outside of marriage. There is no force. It is an act of pleasure. It is carrying out lust.

    No-one agrees to be raped.

    In Islam there is a distinction between zina and rape. A man can not commit zina when he is raping a woman. He is raping. He is not having sexual intercourse with a partner outside of marriage. Thus, in Islam the punishment for rape is different from zina as are the circumstances i.e. witnesses.
  15. Abd_Al_Hadi
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    Abd_Al_Hadi لبيك يا الله

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    Zinah means sexual misconduct. Rape is a form of sexual misconduct.
  16. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    Zina is consensual. Rape is not. Rape is not sexual. It is a violent act. Read up on it. That is why it is in the category of theft in Islam.
  17. Abd_Al_Hadi
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    Abd_Al_Hadi لبيك يا الله

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    wa alaikum as salaam,

    I'm sure thats the Western definition of rape, but I don't know (and frankly don't think) it is the same definition in Islam.

    Rape is not like stealing. Those 4 or 5 American soldiers who raped the 14 year old Iraqi girl and killed her family are not just "thieves." They are the scum of the earth. They were brought up Western-style--which is to love thy neighbor, but rape overseas. I pray that Allah brings all sorts of cancers to their loved ones. May Allah kill even their youngest family member to prevent future filth.

    Its one of the reasons why I smile whenever I hear on the news that a western soldier was killed in Afghanistan. InshaAllah all of those Western troops get killed!

    FYI, one of those scumbags could be a free man in 5 years.
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  18. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Pretty much understandable. That's what I'm getting at, ukht. A thread titles can give an idea of it's limits, the OP then defines the limits. Anyone wanting to discuss anything else should open a new thread.

    I for one wouldn't like my thread derailed like that, thus my comment (^ there).

    Atittude like an atittude lol. Yeah did. Not sure if I still do.

    Alhumdulillah it's over.
  19. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    It is not the Western definition of rape. Islam has different categories and punishments for both. Rape falls under stealing.

    As for the sisters immaturity...if you don't have anything to contribute in seeking knowledge don't ...sarcasm is not seeking knowledge. And it is a shame on a thread on rape you would have a sister using lol....for shame.
  20. Abu-Talha
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    Abu-Talha Brother in Deen

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    its not good and not immaturity olso to use others thread for showing somethings wich dosnt have to do with that post


    so when man rapes women he is not having intimate relations with her, he is playing with her !!!

    two things are here, she is his wife, or not his wife, if she is not his wife and he has intimate relation with her, what is that !!!, he is just playing around !!!

    Ali radiyAllahu anhuma said " things are not done with logic in islam, becasue if things would of done like that we would give mas-h under the feet, but we give above ", with logic is more understandble with our logic to give mas-h under, becasue there it gets more unclean, but we follow the proof from Quran and sunah as sahaba understud and we practis that

    so enough of repating yourself, bring proof from Quran and sunah about your claims, dont write again in islam this and that, islam has sources, bring proof about raping, and please dont bring me proof from sect like shia, sufi etc sects, just from scholars that followed Quran and sunah

    sory for any harsh words, but this is going no where, bring proof, this is last time i ask

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