Rapists have visitation right in 31 states

Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by Hajjerr, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. uniqueskates
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    uniqueskates Rabbe Zidni Illma

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    Walaikumassalaam wa rehamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

    That's the difference between Allah(SWT) and we humans.. ;)
    Not every human is capable of that much forgiveness, each person has their limits sister and we are striving to push those limits everyday.. :) InshaAllah we'll be successful someday.. InshaAllah :)
    Allah(SWT) loves us more than 70 times that of our mother's do.. That's what i have heard.. If am wrong do correct me..

    Peace :)
  2. Hajjerr
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    Hajjerr He is Dhul-Jalali Wal-Ikram

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    Salam aleykum

    Is NOT from islam that a rapist marry the victim, Subhanallah...this is part os answer from islamQA:
    But we are speeking about the child here and as i said before, at a deeper thinking, the child has the right to know who is his father, if is no danger for his life or for the poor woman`s life.
    We dont know the ways of Allah.

    About what sister Harb said below me...one can forgive to make peace inside your heart, but if the criminal is a danger, because he is infractor, you stille keep him away, you dont put your safety at risk..or the one of the baby.
  3. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Salam alaykum

    I know people have they limits of forgiveness but it is what we should try to learn in our life. All of us will find difficults in life but we should turn them to good, not to bad.

    For example; I am widow of resistance fighter. He died over 10 years ago. I did after that what I felt is right to do; I became fighter too - for peace, humanity and human rights. Other choice would be stay in hate and anger and think in dark mind "kill them all". I say: let all live.

    Allah put light to my heart, not hate forever.
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  4. Asja
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    Asja Pearl of Islaam

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    Wa allaicumu salam

    Dear sister, I do not understand how can you decide about other feelings, and make your own conclusions, how a woman who has been raped and over which has been done one of the worst crimes, that this woman who only knows her pain and suffer, does not have a " right" to put a hate and anger " to a mind of child against " his/ hers father.

    The victim has every right, first all of like a human being,on her own feelings toward the one who has commited the crime agaisnt her life, honour and dignity, not respecting the feelings of the victim is one more crime against her. Rape is not a small crime Astagfirullah, so that it can be understood so lighthty, in fact every crime which is done against other human being is great and it deserves the punishment of Allah subhanahu wa teala. This is exactly the reason why Allah has prescribed us Shariah Law on this World, like a protection for honour of every human being, Alhamdulilah.

    Yes, forgivness is from Islaam,Alhamdulillah, but like everything else it has its conditions and ways in which it can be applied. How do you know sister, that Allah will forgive the rapist, because Allah can punish him as well for the crime he has commited? Like Alhamdulilah, Allah will punish those who deserve.

    Also in Islam, everyone has right to forgive or not forgive to those who have done some unjustice toward himselfe/ herself,and not forgiving, especially not forgeting, is not a sin, Alhamdulillah, but it is a right of every human being. Especailly when it is word about so great unjustice, like a murder or a rape, it is natural and it is a only normal human feeling, that something like this can not be forgeten, neither forgiven, Alhamdulillah!

    And Allah knows the best

    May Allah gude us all. Ameen summa ameen

    :salam2:

  5. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Salam alaykum

    I wrote about rights of child. If child will born by rape, he/she has every rights to know his/hers origion and HE/SHE has right to both parents.

    Yes I have worked before with gang raped muslim women and some of them got child - no idea who even was they father. It was at ex-Jugoslavia and only I could do with them was cry with them and if needed laugh with them. And found mental care to them as well.

    :tti_sister:

    And ask they to understand that life must go on and in they minds they HAVE to forgive.
  6. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    In my work with rape victims, I too, tried to help them see the next minute.

    Forgiveness was the central issue. They had to forgive themselves. They were robbed of virtue. Many were able to move forward.

    These are very private and individual decisions.

    And one event in our life can not determine the rest of our life. We have to go back to faith. We have to move forward. It is difficult but it does happen.

    Anger is never the solution. And to live the rest of your life in anger is selling yourself short.

    In this thread we are discussing women who are not Muslim. We are discussing laws that are not sharia. There is a lot of speculation. Rape is not isolated to one community or religion. It occurs and will keep occurring. In the small percentage of women who keep the child conceived by rape and do not give the child up for adoption they have to make decisions. The decision to keep the child involves the right of the child to know his/her father. We may offer opinions but we can not make the decisions.
  7. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Wasalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh,

    I'm actually done with this thread, but I'd like to point out, some children are far better without a father than having rapist, robbers, murderers for fathers. What benefit will innocent beings get from men like them. True that they will miss on a "fathers' love" but better this then one getting first hand training to being one of them.

    That's my take on the issue and you are entitled to your opinion. However, I'd like to point this out too. Shari'a would be taking away their biological "dads" and there is no greater wisdom or law then the law of Allaah. If Allah has ordained it, it's for a reason. Or correctly put, it's for many reasons, some which we may not understand.

    Not to mention, these kids can have fathers when their mothers marry or remarry. There are those who love children regardless of whom they are born to Alhumdulillah.
  8. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    A child has a right to have a relationship with his biological father. Let the child and father decide that. We can not interfere.

    A man may have been brutal to a woman but that does not define all his relationships. That is one of the hard parts of life. And the crux of this is forgiving. And there are women rapists, too. Let us not forget that.
  9. azad.ahmed
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    azad.ahmed Junior Member

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    I don't even think the word 'father' should be applied to call someone who raped someone and got that person pregnant. Islamically With regard to a child born out of wedlock, he should be given his mother’s name and cannot be given the name of the rapist or zaani as a father.
  10. Casiva
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    Casiva A Servant of Allah

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    But maybe you forget that this is Islamic forum,so we must discuss anything BASED ON ISLAMIC VALUES. If you insist to defend those sinners or beastly law,then go to another forum where you can use your logic to make arguments while citing those human-made law and comon sense shaped by westerner.
    In Islam,rapists will face one of these two punishmanets:

    -If he is unmarried,he will be whipped 100 times,exiled for a year,while paying the victim with certain amount of money
    -If he is married,he will be stoned to death

    And Islam NEVER recognized that beastly law about rights of rapists to their accidental children,nor ordered the the rapists to marry the victims. So,don't waste your time to argue if your argument based on nonmuslim source.

    Who are you to decide a man has rights over another and someone has to forgive another?Those sickening rights aren't there in Islam's teachings and even Allah never ordered anyone to forgive another! Do you know qishash rule? If someone killed another,he would be killed as well unless the family of the victim could forgive the killer and paid by the amount of money as they desire. Here,Allah gave us choice to forgive or not. He didn't order us to HAVE TO forgive.
    And I have to remind you that even if Allah is Most Forgiving but He destroys sinners,for example Prophet Mouses' Pharaoh, and sends people to hell for what they have done. If you think that all human's wrongdoings will be forgiven so easily like that christian's teachings,you have done a great mistake! What is the purpose of hell,then?Every man has to take responsibility for his/her own mistake!
    Maybe you can write those words above so easily but have you been raped before? Do you know how devastated it is to be the victim of rape?
    Life goes on, but there are significant changes in victims of rape's life that can't be easily ignored! Shame on you to suggest someone what to do without concerning their feelings and without Islamic reference!
  11. uniqueskates
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    uniqueskates Rabbe Zidni Illma

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    AssalaamuAlaikum..

    I call in for peace between all the sisters out here.. *White flag* *Olive leaves*.. Please don't fight..

    @Sis Casiva..

    Perfectly valid point u made.. The verses are

    42:40 The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof; but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is with Allah. Verily, He likes not the wrongdoers.

    42:41 And indeed whosoever takes revenge after he has suffered wrong, for such there is no way (of blame) against them.

    42:42 The way is only against those who oppress men and rebel in the earth without justification; for such there will be a painful torment.

    42:43. And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives, that would truly be from the things recommended by Allah.

    As you said.. Allah(SWT) has a choice for the victim to forgive or to take revenge.. But if the victim forgives he/she Allah(SWT) will reward him/her. Pretty much true..

    And i think "Sister harb" meant by "HAVE to forgive" is that the country the victim might live is might not follow Islamic system. Plus each country has it's own legal system, and if the victim takes revenge, she would have to face consequences according to the laws of that country.. And i think that would be more of a problem for the victim.. I think she and Aapa were trying to talk practically sister..

    And please calm down sis.. You are just holding on to a piece of hot coal.. :D Allah(SWT) loves who is patient..

    Allah's Apostle Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said, "The strong is not the one who overcomes the people by his strength, but the strong is the one who controls himself while in anger." [Bukhari]

    @Sister Harb
    Please try to be specific and to the point sister..

    @All - Please please please don't fight among ourselves.. It's very bad to see such it.. :( :(

    Peace :) :)
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  12. Aapa
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    Aapa Mirajmom

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    Assalaam alaikum,

    Sister,

    First...you are the new one here. Slow down. We are senior sisters of this forum. I am the eldest by far.

    Second...the laws that are being discussed are American laws. So the discussion started by being limited to the US.

    Third, everyone has an opinion. Sister Harb and I have counseled and worked with rape victims. I have worked with abused children. I have a little insight, not much, on how people think.

    Lastly, in Islam the best one can do is to forgive. That is the bottom line. My arguments are always based on Islamic sources. I use the Quran and hadith. I ask for those with knowledge to help me. I do not promote hate. I find the singular line of lumping men into one group and hating them to be of a Zionist twinge. I grew up and was a feminist. I had to do a lot of work to free my soul from that line of thinking.

    Sister, you are supporting a woman of the kufr, as well. They are the best to point fingers at others. I can give you a long list of those women. Many called for lynchings.

    Brother,

    Sister Harb and I are not fighting. We are showing compassion on a wider level.
  13. Um Ibrahim
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    Um Ibrahim Alhamdulilah :)

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    I think people are mixing things up. When talking about rape in the U.S. let's not even discuss sharia law or Islam, because if this country or any country in the world for that matter was ruling according to Islamic laws, rape in general would not be so widespread like it is today, why? because in Islam the punishment for rapists is severe and a man would think twice about raping a woman when he knows what is waiting for him. A rapist has no right as a father in Islam, in fact, children born out of wedlock are not even traced back to the biological fathers. There's a reason why we have MARRIAGE in Islam. If the woman was/is married, the child will belong to her husband and not the rapist or adulterer.

    Rape is rape no matter what religion the woman is. No rapist should ever be given a chance to come near the child. He has no rights, he's a rapist. If he changes his action and becomes a better person that's up to him, but the woman has the right to say no you will never come near my child. and when the child is older, well if he or she actually wants to associate themselves with a rapists (I don't think anyone will ever want to know who raped their mom), then thats on that child when they grow up. A rapists should never have any rights concerning the child. He took away his rights when he raped and hurt an innocent person. Rapists should just be killed, end of story. They're disgusting and a threat to society. Rape should never ever be tolerated in any country whether Muslim or not.
  14. Asja
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    Asja Pearl of Islaam

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    Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

    I completely agree with you dear sister, Alhmadulillah.

    MashAllah it is very good conclusion of this thread and this subject.

    May Allah guide us all. Ameen summa Ameen

    Assalamu allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu
  15. Abd_Al_Hadi
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    Abd_Al_Hadi لبيك يا الله

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    Rape is not a crime if you have enough money to buy the "not guilty" verdict.

    He got away with it:
    46271-Prince-Alwaleed-Bin-Talal-A.jpg
  16. Casiva
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    First, because I am newbie and you are senior,then I can't have a debate with you?So,is it the rule of this forum? What a dissappointment if it is true!
    Second,if it is limited to US only citizen,why didn't announce it in the title?Write "US only" will be sufficient. And why was it posted here if the purpose not to comment it based on Islamic values and Sharia?This is Islamic forum,not a common forum!
    Third,everyone has opinion,but if someone goes astray,it is the duty of another to remind him/her.
    Lastly, I don't promote hate,but not everyone capable of forgiving and Allah doesn't force muslim to do so. And if you say that your arguments based on Quran and hadith, then what verse or hadith that make rapists have rights over their accidental children?NOTHING! Remember this : to forgive but not to forget!
    In Islam,we better avoid people who have temptation to danger or threaten our lifes and religion,even Allah had many times warned us about jews and christians in Quran and wanted us not to be so close with them. If you doubt or reject Quran,then I will doubt your faith.
    If you are feminist then you should understand more and protect those women,not dragging them to the new level of sufferings by accepting their rapists. I have learned about feminism in college and it is clearly not supporting women's sufferings.
    And I am not supporting kufr or pointing fingers. I just want to remind all of you of Islam's true nature since it is Islamic forum. And you can be called supporting kufr as well for defending this kufr law!
    So,in the end, it is the muslims who will decide: they will support beastly law made by kufr or come back to Islamic law and value? I hope Allah will give them guidance

    Really agree with you! Those rapist rights are clearly not Islamic and a total disgrace to humanity!
  17. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Salam alaykum

    thats ríght. Sister Aapa is my sister in this and many other matters.
  18. Aapa
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    Assalaam alaikum,

    Sister,

    No, I do not debate. I do my research. I actually took the time and researched a wee bit. I read about the cases. I glanced over the legal documents. I read what the defense attorney wrote. There is actually a debate going on about this.

    This is political at the moment. This is all about money. I live here in the US. I have been very active until recently in knowing about politics. I just got bored with it. I mentioned several times in my responses that it was US Law.

    You have to understand that there are political motives so deep that break up the family. You break up the family and you have total control.

    Sister, if you wish to doubt my faith do so. I know the depth of my faith. Do not be upset. It is in the vein of Islam to have counsel. It is my style to have views that may not be popular....but I am much older than most of you. I have walked many more miles than most of you. And I have walked into places that were dangerous. I know what I am talking about.


    Sister Harb... how can I ask for His Forgiveness if I can't forgive others..it is janna that I seek. Everything else I can let go.
  19. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Salam alaykum

    what ever had happened to us we can´t just stay on hate. Hate eats ourselves.

    I know from Israel man whose daughter died by suicide attack in bus. He after that became human right worker looking for peace with Palestinians.
  20. sister herb
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    sister herb Official TTI Chef

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    Salam alaykum

    Jannah we all seek. Forgive others isn´t even most difficult. Most difficult is forgive to ourself.

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