Thoughts for Sister Kayleigh

[kayleigh]

If a man is genuinely taking care of the home and children while the woman works, that isn't lazy and in that case he is pulling his weight. Unfortunately I still think that's rare. Some guys do stop working and let their wives or girlfriends support them and don't even bother to cook or clean or make their significant other's life any easier. That's not what I'm talking about, though.

There's a lot of middle aged men and women who are going to the same college I go to in order to retrain because they've been laid off and can't find work. Most of them have children, and some of them I've spoken to really can't find a full time job. Their best hope is a $9/hour 30 hour a week gig and that's if they're lucky. I'm sorry, but you absolutely cannot support a family on that. That's what I make and I can barely afford to put myself through college and pay my own bills. I can't imagine trying to support another human being on that kind of wage.

I'm curious if anyone thinks men would be a worse parent to raise a child than a woman, and why?

and on the topic of a man being the leader and a woman being the follower...I kind of agree with azrafar in a way.

In every relationship I've ever been in or witnessed, whether it be a friendship or something more there is always one person who is more dominant than the other. That doesn't mean that dominant person puts their foot down and the other submissive person has to just go along with it all the time. That would be a pretty dysfunctional relationship, in my opinion. But respect and compromise are necessary as well.

I've never been married, so I'm probably wrong. My parents have been happily married for almost 40 years. My mom "wears the pants" in the family. She makes most of the decisions and the planning. She is the dominant one in most cases. It works for them because of their personalities and strengths. They both balance each other. So I don't think men always have to be dominant and women always have to be submissive because everyone has a different personality and if you tried to make every person and relationship fit one single mold, a lot of those relationships would fall apart.

Honestly... most Muslims marriages I've seen have the guy acting all dominant in public, when in reality, the woman calls the shots completely when they're out of the public eye. It's kind of funny to see lol. Maybe the key to a successful marriage is learning how to make a man think that he is always in control, even though he usually isn't Kidding, kidding...

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

A thousand years ago I asked a wonderful lady what the secret was to a successful marriage. She responded that a woman needs to learn two words: Yes, dear.!!!

This is not an attempt to focus on sexism. It is an attempt to help others realize we are going through very difficult economic times. When the economy is topsey turvey we have to make tough decisions. Some of the decisions that are facing Americans, including American Muslims is the fact that the nature of the economy is making it difficult for the traditional role of wife at home and husband at work.

This also brings to light that not all Muslim marriages are made in heaven. We have many many divorced sisters. These sisters have to work to make ends meet. We can not be blind and fault western society. I have seen cases where men have left families behind and the sister is forced to learn English and work.

There are many people who live on the edge. It does not make them bad or good Muslims. They have to survive.

I have not found a voice for this segment of society. This is a group that needs community assistance. I am not limiting this to financial assistance. They need outreach. They need the reassurance of a Muslim community.

There are so many sisters who wait until the first of the month for food for their children.

I am very interested in learning what our esteemed scholars have to say. This is a norm. How does present day Islam reach to the members of the ummath who are economically oppressed. Muslims who have to make decisions daily for survival. I am fully aware there are Muslims who face more serious decisions.

 

[kayleigh]

Assalaam walaikum,

A thousand years ago I asked a wonderful lady what the secret was to a successful marriage. She responded that a woman needs to learn two words: Yes, dear.!!!

This is not an attempt to focus on sexism. It is an attempt to help others realize we are going through very difficult economic times. When the economy is topsey turvey we have to make tough decisions. Some of the decisions that are facing Americans, including American Muslims is the fact that the nature of the economy is making it difficult for the traditional role of wife at home and husband at work.

This also brings to light that not all Muslim marriages are made in heaven. We have many many divorced sisters. These sisters have to work to make ends meet. We can not be blind and fault western society. I have seen cases where men have left families behind and the sister is forced to learn English and work.

There are many people who live on the edge. It does not make them bad or good Muslims. They have to survive.

I have not found a voice for this segment of society. This is a group that needs community assistance. I am not limiting this to financial assistance. They need outreach. They need the reassurance of a Muslim community.

There are so many sisters who wait until the first of the month for food for their children.

I am very interested in learning what our esteemed scholars have to say. This is a norm. How does present day Islam reach to the members of the ummath who are economically oppressed. Muslims who have to make decisions daily for survival. I am fully aware there are Muslims who face more serious decisions.

Thanks for bringing that point up. Just based on my own observation, I feel like Western society recognizes the role of a single mother (thought they don't celebrate her nearly as much as they should), and that Muslims completely ignore it. I don't know if Muslims are ignorant of it, or if they turn a blind eye on purpose? I see so many Muslims talking about ideals. The idea housewife, the ideal working husband, the ideal everything else. But I hardly ever see that reality. It's kind of an injustice to how hard single mothers work, in my opinion.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I concur. ( I do work hard ). Seriously, you have used an important word. The word is ideal. In the world of psychobabble, and I am an expert in it, the ideal and the real are two different constructs. We try for the ideal but live in the real.

Therefore, I believe you and I are trying to gain understanding of where Islam stands today on the real. We can not always say the west is wrong. We are living examples that there is good in the West. Islam has been here for over three centuries.

Islam is perfect. Islam provides answers. I want to know.

 

[sliver]

Wow. That's all I'll say. What I will say is that not all marriages are "leader and follower". I'm lucky and my husband is my best friend, we make decisions together. If all he wanted was someone to cook, clean and iron his clothes, he could hire someone. A marriage, a good one, is about far more than some 1950s tv show.

A stay at home dad isn't disgraceful. If the woman can make more money (ie doctor) to provide for the family, that's good. A strong marriage means that they communicate and there's no "power struggle." People have reasons for the woman being out in the workforce and the man being at home. It doesn't make him less of a man. A good father is a wonderful thing.

Good luck in your future marriage.

That's not necessarily true I mean there has to be "alpha dog" in the relationship. You can't have two leaders because each one will want to go different directions. I am not saying you cant talk it over but in the end someone's got to lead the charge and someone's got to follow behind.

 

[sliver]

"A stay at home dad isn't disgraceful."

it isnt if there is a genuine reason to do that. He may even work from home. if a man cannot pull his own weight he is a disgrace imo anyway.

That's totally wrong what if the man is injured/crippled and can't work you would not allow his wife to work for the family. Or would you just think his some sort of outcast who is less then a man. I mean come on... what if the guy can do the work but the wife's felid of work supports the family better would you deny the man of his "grace" then?

 

[Valerie]

That's not necessarily true I mean there has to be "alpha dog" in the relationship. You can't have two leaders because each one will want to go different directions. I am not saying you cant talk it over but in the end someone's got to lead the charge and someone's got to follow behind.

And what if the "alpha dog" is the woman? *waits for the sound of the forum imploding* (kidding!) But really, what I meant was that in a relationship it's supposed to be two people working together. Maybe in some marriages one person has to fall in line and take orders, but not all.

 

[sliver]

And what if the "alpha dog" is the woman? *waits for the sound of the forum imploding* (kidding!) But really, what I meant was that in a relationship it's supposed to be two people working together. Maybe in some marriages one person has to fall in line and take orders, but not all.

I personally don't mind the women bring home the check so long has there is a check to be brought home but some people here find that outrageous
*shakes head*

 

[Valerie]

I personally don't mind the women bring home the check so long has there is a check to be brought home but some people here find that outrageous
*shakes head*

I agree.

Edit: And I sincerely apologize for assuming otherwise about you. Please forgive me.

 

[hayat84]

:salam2:
let's make to men their role of men and let's make to the women the same:I don't agree with the fact that the husband stays at home even if he takes care of it and prepares something to eat,because it's very hard for a woman to get up early,run to the work place and maybe be the target of some stupit collegue,then to go home and have the strenght to say hallo to the husband who's comodly watching the tv.the man grants a meal to his family like the woman grants the charm of a polished home,good meal and good words when he comes tired.me I think so,but it's just a free thought of mine.I can't go to work among the others,amybe in morocco I wish to work with women,but I don't need it,because I have already too much to do with three children and a husband!

 

[abdallahsh]

My opinion

assalam alaykum brothers and sisters..
I'm going thru this thread and like to share few things... I'm from India and I've seen some muslim families where women is going out for work and husband is sitting @home due to some illness or daughter is going to work and both husband and wife is sitting @ home. So there should not be any problem if women goes out for work due to some financial problems to support ones family. But I agree with brothers in the forum that responsiblity of putting the bread and butter on the table lies with a man. However if a sister likes to work bcoz she has good education background that is also fine and alhamdulillah they knows their religious responsibility like hijab, speaking with guys.. etc..

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am interested in seeking Islamic solutions to the problems faced by the American Muslim woman. What are some Islamic perspectives

that would help us balance the demands on our lives that are within the range of living sharia.

( have to go; am painting my mothers house..times like this I wish I had a buff husband! ).

 

[arzafar]

That's totally wrong what if the man is injured/crippled and can't work you would not allow his wife to work for the family. Or would you just think his some sort of outcast who is less then a man. I mean come on... what if the guy can do the work but the wife's felid of work supports the family better would you deny the man of his "grace" then?

crippled so what? that's not even an excuse. I personally know 2 men who were crippled since childhood and now they support their families alone in a society where people laugh at such persons.

@bold
No. As long the wife obeys her husband and doesnt rebel against him. A little money can make you do strange things you know. In islam leadership belongs to the man.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

We are getting a little opinionated here. We are in the idealistic realm of the equation.
What does leadership have to do with putting food on the table. There are circumstances wherein men are not hired because of prejudice and women have to work; not because the men can not work but men will not be hired.

Where in the Holy Quran is it written that women must be subservient to men.
One obeys out of love. One is subservient out of fear. You can not impose on a person leadership.

This is not about power. This is about survival.

 

[Gernada1492]

ok .. this is my first post here..

i wud like to say men and women are meant to handle different sorts of responsibilities. Men is meant to handle things outside , as he naturally stronger than woman. Women can handle the house very well and i tell u its not easy . Its as same as dealing with things outside house.

Having said that, there are few exceptions which have been stated above in few posts by brothers n sisters. This is where the responsibilities can be changed . Offcourse, there is always a fall back plan.

But , thinking like woman is equal to man and can do all things which man can do can lead to disaster.

Also, man shud help in house hold as much as he can. This makes the love stronger, when people work together and creates a stronger bond.

Asian men have different attitude brother arzafar I know that. Life is not all which is lived in ur country brother. Go out travelling and u will learn different things. However, i dont dislike the attitude of asian men

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

:salam2:wa rahmatullahi wabarakatuhu..

wish you all the best in duniya and akhira but i smell an other thread getting expired!!

 

[Gernada1492]

IMHO, it shud not be closed.. its worth discussing this thing. Ppl learn from others as ssome are only seeing one side of picture

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

First, please let me welcome you to the TTI family.

We know we have different roles in life. We are discussing what are the most Islamic ways of living given that life is driven by economic circumstances. Everyone here is a faithful Muslim.

There is nothing concrete about roles. What we are aiming to do is please and serve Allah subhana talla foremost.

There is no reason to close this thread..there is no debate. This is a discussion. We are all on the right side of correct.

I can't help it if I am a pioneer woman type. Islam has given me the confidence to be independent.

 

[Gernada1492]

thansks mom and u r rite.. We are discussin roles under different circumstances. This is why i said, this shud not be closed

 

[IHearIslam]

:salam2: brothers and sisters in Islam, I hope ya'll are in the bestest of health/imaan

I have waited for long to share my opinion.....I have been reading this thread for a while now. I saw both sides, sorta reminds me of a discussion we had in anthropology class this past spring. Everybody has there own opinion, at the end of the day....discussions are healthy alhamduliAllaah Islam is easy and well balanced...it's a perfect way of life. Now living in the USA...I know the trend is changing, women are working...men stay at home dads. In my opinion that is not too bad as long as the woman is within the guidelines of Islamic Shari'ah. Of course in Islam a woman is allowed to keep her own income, but if a sister makes alot more money than the brother....lets say the brother works at Burger King (just and example here) and the sister is like a doctor....obviously the sister makes ALOT more money than what the brother makes. For the sister to be like "dude I am keeping my money" would seem unfair, we're Muslims, we support one another, we're open to sharing alhamduliAllaaah. Men are Qawamoon (they are protectors of women) that dont mean women are sub-servants as many Muslim men "THINK" today. Khadija Radhu'Allaahu anhu, was a merchant right?? She was a business woman, she was strong Mu'minah too mashaAllaah. So, to now deprive a Muslim sister who wishes to work her right would be unfair. Also, like sister Kayliegh mentioned.....a stay at home dad is going to raise amazing kids just like a stay at home Mom would. Both are PARENTS at the end of the day.....men can be compationate, they can be nurturing just like women alhamduliAllaah. I am not saying we're EQUAL.....I am saying, when the circumstances don't allow both to play the role "they are supposed to play" we gotta look at the other side and do what we can to support a family even if that means "mom working.....dad staying home"
that was just my two cents......if I wanna say more ima come back inshaAllaah. I run out of thoughts now.