1- Response to your understanding of certain Biblical verses
[Genesis 6:5-7 and Exodus 31:17]
I posted the verses of Genesis 6:5-7 and Exodus 31:17 -in post #37- to show that the Bible contains phrases that negate the belief that God Almighty is perfect. I -as a Muslim- affirm that God Almighty is perfect.
To post #37, click on the following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151855&postcount=37
And you, DadManG, replied as follows in post #43:
Very good questions:
I am sure that we could go back and forth picking at each others "bible".
I will try to respond to your questions in this one, but I think I will try to look at the historical evidences for our beliefs. It seems that trying to find out if the bible and the quran are historically accurate would be a worthy adventure.
Quote:
When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil, he regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was grieved. So the LORD said: "I will wipe out from the earth the men whom I have created, and not only the men, but also the beasts and the creeping things and the birds of the air, for I am sorry that I made them."
It has never occurred to me to consider an emotion like grieve to be negative. The above quoted verses only display His character/desire for man.
As to the verses referencing God "resting" on the seventh day, the word for rested can also be translated as ceased. God ceased from His work.
I am not trying to convert anyone. I realize that it is difficult to have a deep conversation this way.
Thank you for your responses
Source:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151920&postcount=43
I have four points to state [A,B,C and D]:
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A- You said, "I am sure that we could go back and forth picking at each others "bible". "
The Holy Book we Muslims believe God Almighty revealed to Prophet Muhammad [peace be upon him] is called the Qur'an. It's not one of your Bible versions.
We Muslims believe that God Almighty did reveal Holy Scriptures to other prophets as well, such as Abraham, David, Moses and Jesus [peace be upon them all]. However, only one of these Scriptures was preserved intact, and remains to this day free from any corruption; the Qur'an.
I don't want to dwell on this point. I'll return to it in the next posts found below.
If -however- you meant that I posted verses from other versions of the Bible in my post #37 when you wrote "picking at each others "bible".", then I apologize.
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B- You said, "It has never occurred to me to consider an emotion like grieve to be negative. The above quoted verses only display His character/desire for man."
I completely disagree.
Again, Genesis 6:5-7 reads as follows:
When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil, he regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was grieved. So the LORD said: "I will wipe out from the earth the men whom I have created, and not only the men, but also the beasts and the creeping things and the birds of the air, for I am sorry that I made them."
[New American Bible]
Why was God's heart [according to the above Biblical verses and
not my belief] grieved? Because God "regretted that he had made man on the earth"
Don't you find these verses blasphemous?
God Almighty -the All Knowing, the All Wise and the All Powerful- regrets a decision He has made and is grieved by it??
And the added insult -as if the first insult is not enough- is the sentence at the beginning which states "When the LORD saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil,...."
Excuse me??!!
Are you seriously telling me that God Almighty -the All Knowing, the All Wise and the All Powerful- did not know about "man's wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil"
until after he saw this wickedness and evil happening?
Again, don't you find this blasphemous?
It seems, DadManG, that Muslims and Christians have a very different definition of what it means to be "perfect".
We Muslims believe that regretting a past decision, feeling grief for it and not knowing about future events certainly and totally negates the perfection that is due to God Almighty.
I seek refuge with Allah from such blasphemies.
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C- What about the verse that says "for I am sorry that I made them"?
God Almighty apologizes?
Do you, DadManG, believe that God Almighty apologized?
Or maybe it is meant here as an expression of regret. And yet to even say that God Almighty regrets is a blasphemy, and I seek refuge with God Almighty from believing in any blasphemy.
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D- You said -concerning Exodus 31:17- "As to the verses referencing God "resting" on the seventh day, the word for rested can also be translated as ceased. God ceased from His work."
Firstly, there would be no need to mention that God ceased on the seventh day. That would be understood by the fact that God Almighty created the Heavens and the Earth in six days.
Secondly, you said "the word for rested can also be translated as ceased. God ceased from His work."
Here, we need to look at all the English versions of the Bible and how they translated Exodus 31:17. I will colour in red and set in bold type any word or phrase that means something more than just "ceased",
like so. Let's see what the different English versions have to say:
1- Bishop Richard Challoner's revision of the Douay-Rhemis version:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and in the seventh he ceased from work.
Source:
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/exo031.htm
2- The New American Bible [currently the official English version of the Roman Catholic Church]:
Between me and the Israelites it is to be an everlasting token; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day he rested
at his ease."
Source:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P2C.HTM
3- The New International Version:
It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17&version=31
It's very clear that "rested" here does
not mean stopping or ceasing from work.
4- The New American Standard Bible:
It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=49;
5- The Message:
It's a fixed sign between me and the Israelites. Yes, because in six days God made the Heavens and the Earth and on the seventh day he stopped and took a long, deep breath.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=65;
6- Amplified Bible:
It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and earth, and on the seventh day He ceased and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=45;
7- New Living Translation:
It is a permanent sign of my covenant with the people of Israel. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=51;
8- King James Version:
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=9;
9- English Standard Version:
It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=47;
10- Contemporary English Version:
This day will always serve as a reminder, both to me and to the Israelites, that I made the heavens and the earth in six days, then on the seventh day I rested and relaxed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=46;
11- New King James Version:
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=50;
12- New Century Version:
The Sabbath day will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, because in six days I, the Lord, made the sky and the earth. On the seventh day I did not work; I rested.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=78;
It's very clear that "rested" here does
not mean stopping or ceasing from work.
13- 21st Century King James Version:
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=48;
14- American Standard Version:
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=8;
15- Young's Literal Translation:
between Me and the sons of Israel it [is] a sign -- to the age; for six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, and in the seventh day He hath ceased, and is refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=15;
16- Darby Translation:
It shall be a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever; for [in] six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=16;
17- New Life Version:
It is something special between Me and the people of Israel forever. For the Lord made heaven and earth in six days. But He stopped working and rested on the seventh day.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=74;
It's very clear that "rested" here does
not mean stopping or ceasing from work.
18- Holman Christian Standard Bible:
It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=77;
19- New International Reader's Version:
It will be the sign of the covenant I have made between me and the people of Israel forever. " 'I made the heavens and the earth in six days. But on the seventh day I did not work. I rested.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=76;
It's very clear that "rested" here does
not mean stopping or ceasing from work.
20- New International Version - UK:
It will be a sign between me and the Israelites for ever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=64;
It's very clear that "rested" here does
not mean stopping or ceasing from work.
21- Today's New International Version:
It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.
Source:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 31:17;&version=72;
It's very clear that "rested" here does
not mean stopping or ceasing from work.
22- The Ferrar Fenton Bible:
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six ages the EVER-LIVING made the solar system and the earth, but upon the seventh age, He rested and refreshed.
Source:
http://www.ferrarfenton.com/pdf/exodus.pdf
You'll find verse 17 of chapter 31 of Exodus at the bottom of the left hand column on page 33 of the PDF file found in the above source link [page 84 in the original Bible].
23- The Revised Standard Version:
It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Source:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv...book=Exodus&chapno=31&startverse=17&endverse=
24- The New Revised Standard Version (Anglicized Edition):
It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Source:
http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Exodus+31:17
Let us review the results:
We reviewed 24 English versions of the Bible:
- 1 version simply stated that God "ceased from work" and did not add any other thing.
- 14 versions added that God was "refreshed" on the seventh day.
- 1 version added "at his ease."
- 1 Version added that God "took a long, deep breath".
- 1 version added that God was "relaxed".
- 6 versions added "and rested" or "rested" after it was already mentioned in the verse that God abstained from or ceased or stopped the work [of creating the heavens and the earth].
I seek refuge with Allah from attributing that He "rested", was "refreshed" or any such thing.
So,
only one version simply stated that God "ceased from work" on the seventh day. That, DadManG, is your opinion of what Exodus 31:17 translates to.
The rest of the versions [numbering 23] all add something more. The majority [10 out of 23] add that God was "refreshed" on the seventh day.
So, it's very clear that the vast majority of the translators and editors of the English versions of the Bible do not agree with your following above mentioned statement:
"As to the verses referencing God "resting" on the seventh day, the word for rested can also be translated as ceased. God ceased from His work."
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Do you know what Allah the Almighty revealed in the Qur'an about the creation of the Heavens and the Earth?
Please read the following:
And indeed We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six Days and nothing of fatigue touched Us.
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 50:38]
Source:
http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?nSora=50&l=eng&nAya=38#50_38