Blind following. What is it?

saima abdullah

my life iz 4 Allah
just was thinking over this word and i wud like to know your thoughts about blind following. What you call it and is that ok or not?
my understanding and observation about this word is that we fallow a person without daleel ..and sometimes anything authentic came to nullify the stand of that person we fallow or any dogma we dont even pay attention to that, coz something get fixed in our minds and we dont want to change that thing... as ppl who pray Allah to show us haq but when it comes to them they don't except its version we want thing happen our own way ...
 

Gernada1492

A Muslim
this is the best answer :)
but have u heard Same'na wa Ata'ana ?

Sahabah (RA) used to say that when they hear any islamic order and act on it, without asking daleel. However, it is still the best answer by sister Saima

my understanding and observation about this word is that we fallow a person without daleel ..and sometimes anything authentic came to nullify the stand of that person we fallow or any dogma we dont even pay attention to that, coz something get fixed in our minds and we dont want to change that thing... as ppl who pray Allah to show us haq but when it comes to them they don't except its version we want thing happen our own way ...
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

With respect to asking for proofs, look at the level/knowledge of the one who is making the claim before thinking about asking for a proof. Shaykh Saalih Al-Fawzaan said:

"As for the permissible form of blind-following (at-taqleedul-mubaah), then it is for the common person (aamee) who, if he does not follow the people of knowledge, then he will stray from the path. Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, said: "Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know." [an-Nahl 16:43]

And taqleed is not done to just anyone. Rather, it is done to one who is accredited with knowledge and piety and is known to the people for this."


With respect to blameworthy/impermissible blind-following, Ibn Al-Qayyim (rahimahullaah) said:

"It is of three types:- Firstly: totaly turning away from what Allaah has revealed, but rather being satisfied with the taqleed of ones for-fathers.

Secondly: doing taqleed of someone when you do not know whether that person is from those whose saying can be taken.

Thirdly: doing taqleed after the proofs have been established and it becomes apparent that the evidence contradicts the view of the one to whom taqleed is done."


And since Ayman's ijtihaad post has been mentioned here, this may too be of benefit. Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said:

"As for the one who has the ability to perform ijtihaad, is it permissible for him to do taqleed? About this there is a difference of opinion, with the correct opinion being that it is permissible in cases where he is unable to perform ijtihaad; either due to the proofs being similar, or due to a time constraint in being able to perform ijtihaad, or due to the proof not being apparent to him. So in cases where he is unable, the obligation of ijtihaad is lifted from him due to this inability."


All the above is taken from an article on spubs.com. For the full article see,
http://abdurrahman.org/sunnah/theprohibitedpermissible.html
 

saima abdullah

my life iz 4 Allah
this is the best answer :)
but have u heard Same'na wa Ata'ana ?

Sahabah (RA) used to say that when they hear any islamic order and act on it, without asking daleel.

that thing remains on this place for quran and authentic traditions of Prophet S.A.W or shaba we have to obey the person who guides us towards that, but there is rule of fiqh la taatal makhlook fe maseeyatilllah "there is no obedience of creation in disobedience of creator" ... a muslim should learn about the things that are obligatory .. coz its obligation for every muslim to learn about the obligations and his duties towards his Creator... then comes the minor things sunnah of drinking water etc. that is not fard its all about taqwa. a muslim should be careful in chosing leadership coz it will lead to his end... as it comes in quran that firaoon mislead his nation and he will lead them to hill fire (not exact words of ayaah)
 

Gernada1492

A Muslim
sister saima.. u r right about wat u have said but question is do we have enoiugh knowledge to make ijtihad? do we give enough time to research things ? and from where we do our research? do we have that level of taqwa of our pious predecessors? As taqwa directly relates to knowledge.

Are we any way near them to make ijtihad brother al-kashmiri? even we dont know calculus etc, how can we do such a big thing? taking our decision without spending much time on islam... much time means nights and days on 1 ayah of quraan

Waiting for clarification
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

I'm afraid I had to intervene. Sister Saima, asides the no Urdu in public forums rule, we do not allow a single thing of "Shaykh" Faisal promoted on TTI. Allaah knows best of his affair now, but the man is a crazed takfeeri. If there was only one takfeeri speaker in our Ummah, he would surely be that individual.

His takfeer went so far that in one lecture, it is said that he restated his shahadah on account of declaring a Muslim a disbeliever and then retracting his speech. He openly stated that one can literally kill hindus/kuffaar and take their wealth because it is 'ours', but after he was arrested and exiled, he turned around, chickened out, and started kissing up to the kuffaar in his country, Jamaica.

He once said in-front of a group of my brothers, that he would take Shaykh Saleem Al-Hilaalee and us, throw us in a gas-chamber and take our wives as slaves... Is this the sort of individual who deserves an ear from any sensible Muslim?

I've noticed that minus a few idiots, it's mainly the "gangster" wanna-be category of youth who are influenced by his notorious ramblings. Those who are quick to legitimise the haraam to suit their desires. May Allaah guide us and him.
 

Gernada1492

A Muslim
interesting. i need to read more abt him first then
As-salaamu `alaykum

I'm afraid I had to intervene. Sister Saima, asides the no Urdu in public forums rule, we do not allow a single thing of "Shaykh" Faisal promoted on TTI. Allaah knows best of his affair now, but the man is a crazed takfeeri. If there was only one takfeeri speaker in our Ummah, he would surely be that individual.

His takfeer went so far that in one lecture, it is said that he restated his shahadah on account of declaring a Muslim a disbeliever and then retracting his speech. He openly stated that one can literally kill hindus/kuffaar and take their wealth because it is 'ours', but after he was arrested and exiled, he turned around, chickened out, and started kissing up to the kuffaar in his country, Jamaica.

He once said in-front of a group of my brothers, that he would take Shaykh Saleem Al-Hilaalee and us, throw us in a gas-chamber and take our wives as slaves... Is this the sort of individual who deserves an ear from any sensible Muslim?

I've noticed that minus a few idiots, it's mainly the "gangster" wanna-be category of youth who are influenced by his notorious ramblings. Those who are quick to legitimise the haraam to suit their desires. May Allaah guide us and him.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
interesting. i need to read more abt him first then

Then you should read what the committee of one masjid where he was once an Imam has had to say about him,

The Devil's Deception of `Abdullah Faysal pt.1
The Devil's Deception of `Abdullah Faysal pt.2

Here are some of his statements...

"So you want to go to Jannah, put up your hands those who want to go to Jannah. It's easy, kill a kaafir, just kill a kaafir!"

Regarding the rather respected da`ee Abu Usamah Adh-Dhahabi that many of us are familiar with, Faisal said about him:

"Anyone who listens to this tape, of this man and doubt that he’s a kaafir you become a kaafir! If you listen to this person Aboo Usaamah trying to put Islaam down and Muslims down and jihaad down, if you have an atom’s weight of doubt in your heart that he’s a kaafir, you yourself become a kaafir.”

In this particular lecture (which the crackhead he is, he titled it "The Devil’s Deception of the 21st Century House Niggers"), he continues...

“What do you think we should do with this person (i.e. Aboo Usaamah adh-Dhahabi)?”
Audience: “Kill him!”
Faisal: “I can’t hear you?”
Audience: “Kill him!”
Faisal: I still can’t hear you?
Audience: “Kill him!”
Faisal: “OK that makes sense.”


In another lecture, he showed how much of a man he isn't,

“You’re allowed to take all these benefits that these kaafirs offer you, because everything that the kaafir owns is yours. Every single thing that the kaafir owns is yours so you’re allowed to take all the benefits that they offer you and you’re even allowed to have four wives and put them on benefit, so hope that they give you a mansion in Hampstead Heath!”
 

Kakorot

Junior Member
'Abdullaah Faisal

El-Faisal was sent to the United Kingdom to preach by Sheikh Raji. He returned to the UK in 1991, became the imam at the Brixton Mosque in South London, began preaching to crowds of up to 500 people at the mosque and at Brixton Town Hall. He married his second wife, Pakistani-British biology graduate Zubeida Khan whom he met months after his arrival, in 1992, thereby acquiring rights of residence. He remained married, however, to his first wife, and as of 2010 both marriages were still intact. In 1993, el-Faisal was ejected by Brixton Mosque's Salafi administration who objected to his radical preaching.

Afterward, he gave a lecture he called The Devil's Deception of the Saudi Salafis, scorning the Salafi Muslims, calling them "major hypocrites". In a taped lecture in the late 1990s entitled The Devil's Deception of the 21st Century House Niggers he declared the African-American Salafi preacher Abu Usamah kaafir (an apostate). He also moved to Tower Hamlets, East London, where he began a study center.

Referred to as "Sheikh" by his followers, el-Faisal travelled and lectured to audiences of predominantly young Muslim males in mosques in Birmingham, London, and Dewsbury in West Yorkshire, and in Manchester, Worthing, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Swansea, Coventry, Maidenhead, Tipton, Beeston, and venues in Scotland and Wales. Some of his lectures were taped and sold at Islamic bookshops. He also called on Muslim mothers to raise their children to be jihad soldiers by the age of 15. It is the content of those taped lectures that served as the basis for his later trial and conviction.

In February 2002, El-Faisal's tapes were purchased by an undercover police officer at an Islamic bookshop at 62 Brick Lane in London and seized under a search warrant at Zam Zam Bookshop at 388 Green Street in East Ham and at his home at 104 Albert Square in Stratford. He was arrested on 18 February 2002.


El-Faisal is an associate of Abu Khabub al-MasriEl-Faisal is an associate of Abu Hamza al-Masri, the Egyptian ousted from the Finsbury Park mosque who is known for preaching against non-Muslims, and who is currently incarcerated in the United Kingdom for various offenses. El-Faisal is reportedly a former supporter of Osama bin Laden, and has been linked to al-Qaeda members.

Conviction
After a four-week trial at the Old Bailey, el-Faisal was found guilty by a jury of six men and six women on 24 February 2003 of: (a) three charges of soliciting the murder of Jews, Americans, Hindus, and Christians; and (b) two charges of using threatening words to stir up racial hatred, in tapes of speeches to his followers.

The prior December, a poll had indicated that 8 per cent of the British Muslims it sampled would support terrorist acts against England. El-Faisal was the first person in more than a century to be convicted under Britain's 1861 Offences Against the Person Act. He was also the first Muslim cleric to be tried in the UK.

Taped lectures
In tapes of lectures he had given, he exhorted Muslim women to buy toy guns for their children, to train them for jihad. El-Faisal tried to recruit British schoolboys for terrorist training camps, promising them "seventy-two virgins in paradise" if they died fighting a holy war. El-Faisal said "Those who want to go to Jenna [paradise], it's easy, just kill a Kaffar [unbeliever] ... by killing that Kaffar you have purchased your ticket to paradise." He told audiences to kill Hindus, Jews, and other non-Muslims like "cockroaches".

On one tape, titled "Jihad", he said: "Our methodology is the bullet, not the ballot." In a tape called "Rules of Jihad", thought to have been made before the 9/11 attacks, he said: "You have to learn how to shoot. You have to learn how to fly planes, drive tanks, and you have to learn how to load your guns and to use missiles. You are only allowed to use nuclear weapons in that country which is 100% unbelievers." He encouraged the use of "anything, even chemical weapons", to "exterminate non-believers". A picture of the burning World Trade Center was on the cover of one recording.

He lectured: "So you go to India, and if you see a Hindu walking down the road you are allowed to kill him and take his money, is that clear?" He also suggested that nuclear power stations could be fueled with the bodies of Hindus, slaughtered for their "oppression" of Muslims in Kashmir. "Jews," el-Faisal said, "should be killed ... as by Hitler." He said: "People with British passports, if you fly into Israel, it is easy. Fly into Israel and do whatever you can. If you die, you are up in paradise. How do you fight a Jew? You kill a Jew. In the case of Hindus, by bombing their businesses."

During the trial, he denied he had intended to incite people to violence. He also testified that he had held Osama bin Laden in "great respect," but that bin Laden had "lost the path" since September 11.

Sentencing and appeal
El-Faisal was sentenced on 7 March 2003 to nine years in prison. He received seven years for soliciting murder, 12 months to run concurrently for using threatening words with intent to stir up racial hatred, and a further two years (to run consecutively) for distributing threatening recordings with intent to stir up racial hatred. Old Bailey judge Peter Beaumont delivered the sentence. He said el-Faisal had "fanned the flames of hostility", and told him: "As the jury found, you not only preached hate, but the words you uttered in those meetings were recorded to reach a wider audience. You urged those who listened and watched to kill those who did not share your faith." The judge suggested that el-Faisal serve at least half his sentence, and then be deported.

On 17 February 2004 el-Faisal lost an appeal of his conviction. While in prison, he sought to become a representative of Muslim prisoners, leading demonstrations and hunger strikes, and saying: "if you're a cleric, you have to set an example for other Muslim prisoners to follow, and you're not supposed to crack under pressure". He ended up serving four years.

Upon being eligible for parole, el-Faisal was released from prison, deported to Jamaica, and permanently banned from the UK on 25 May 2007. He remained on an international watch list. Andrew Dismore, a Labour Member of Parliament, noted that deportation might not adequately address the risks posed by el-Faisal, saying: "Once he's deported to Jamaica, what restrictions will there be to prevent him spreading his message of hate over the Internet?"

On his arrival in Jamaica, the Islamic Council of Jamaica banned him from preaching in its mosques. He began to again give lectures, conduct Q&A sessions via online chats, and established himself at the pulpit of a mosque in Spanish Town, just west of Kingston, Jamaica. The content of his sermons remained the same as that which was submitted at his trial.

In June 2008 he was preaching in South Africa. He reportedly traveled by road through various countries in Africa including Nigeria, Angola, Malawi, Swaziland, Mozambique, Botswana, and Tanzania before entering Kenya.

Along the way, Botswana had deported him on suspicion that he was recruiting and training young Batswana to become suicide bombers, and that he was linked to a since-destroyed training camp outside Lobatse.

Kenya
El-Faisal was allowed entry to Kenya on 24 December 2009, due to a computer error. El-Faisal was arrested in Kenya on New Year's Eve 2009 by anti-terror police as he was leaving a mosque in the town of Mombasa. Authorities said they arrested him because he breached the terms of his tourist visa, which did not allow him to preach. He was initially stuck in Kenya despite attempts to deport him, because of his history of involvement in terrorist activities, because other countries refused to allow him to transit through them. While Jamaica had said it would accept him, and keep a close eye on him, South Africa, the U.K., the U.S., and Tanzania all declined to issue him transit visas that would allow him to connect to flights to Jamaica.

He was deported from Kenya on 7 January 2010, which sought to send him to the West African nation of Gambia, which agreed to accept el-Faisal at his request. But as he was being transported through Nigeria, Nigerian authorities refused to grant him a transit visa and instead sent him back to Kenya on 10 January 2010. The Gambian government also indicated it would not grant him entry because of the "bad publicity" surrounding his deportation.

A few hundred Muslim Kenyan protesters attended a street demonstration 8 January 2010, protesting the "unfair" treatment of el-Faisal, chanting "Allahu Akbar". On 15 January Kenyan security forces shot in the air and fired tear gas at hundreds of people in Nairobi, some holding the flag of Somali Islamist terrorist group al Shabaab, protested his detention, and some Kenyans, angry at the protesters, hurled stones at the marchers. The following day at least five people died in demonstrations after Friday prayers at Jamia Mosque.

Jamaica
He was deported from Kenya on a private plane (at a cost in excess of $523,000), and on 22 January 2010 arrived back in Jamaica. There, he was questioned by Special Branch investigators who made it clear that he had not broken any laws in Jamaica, but that the police wanted to make sure they knew where and how to find him "because of the international attention he has received". The Islamic Council of Jamaica banned him from preaching at any of its 12 mosques, but said it will not prevent him from worshiping at them.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Then you should read what the committee of one masjid where he was once an Imam has had to say about him,

The Devil's Deception of `Abdullah Faysal pt.1
The Devil's Deception of `Abdullah Faysal pt.2

Here are some of his statements...

"So you want to go to Jannah, put up your hands those who want to go to Jannah. It's easy, kill a kaafir, just kill a kaafir!"

Regarding the rather respected da`ee Abu Usamah Adh-Dhahabi that many of us are familiar with, Faisal said about him:

"Anyone who listens to this tape, of this man and doubt that he’s a kaafir you become a kaafir! If you listen to this person Aboo Usaamah trying to put Islaam down and Muslims down and jihaad down, if you have an atom’s weight of doubt in your heart that he’s a kaafir, you yourself become a kaafir.”

In this particular lecture (which the crackhead he is, he titled it "The Devil’s Deception of the 21st Century House Niggers"), he continues...

“What do you think we should do with this person (i.e. Aboo Usaamah adh-Dhahabi)?”
Audience: “Kill him!”
Faisal: “I can’t hear you?”
Audience: “Kill him!”
Faisal: I still can’t hear you?
Audience: “Kill him!”
Faisal: “OK that makes sense.”


In another lecture, he showed how much of a man he isn't,

“You’re allowed to take all these benefits that these kaafirs offer you, because everything that the kaafir owns is yours. Every single thing that the kaafir owns is yours so you’re allowed to take all the benefits that they offer you and you’re even allowed to have four wives and put them on benefit, so hope that they give you a mansion in Hampstead Heath!”

I have never read anything so disgraceful...Im shocked!
 

saima abdullah

my life iz 4 Allah
subhan Allah ...............i just got out for salaah and got sach a hot response .. by the way i just listened a single lecture of this sheikh and now i came to know alot about him ....lol anyhow jasak Allah for information may Allah guide us and keep us away from false emotional alignments
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
:salam2:

So, it is the same person as I thought he was. Didn't know that he was an imam in the UK.

Sister saima, we have to be extra cautious whom we take our religious knowledge from. There are a lot of people out there who have an incorrect understanding of the deen.
 
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