Dawah with a Born-Again Christian
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Mairo
Maryama
Amen, sister. Thank you for posting your thoughts about this.
Mairo
Maryama
I know a lot of Muslims are anti-zionist, but there are also Muslims for which this translates into anti-semitism, and they seek to destroy the entire Jewish population. This bothers me greatly. Related to the example you provided of Mother Theresa, I have the example of Elie Wiesel, who is a well known author of Jewish background and humanitarian, who has also been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. I am fortunate enough to be able say I know this man personally, he was my professor, as I attended the university where he teaches. I challenge anyone to examine this man's life and the contributions he has made in the world to see if they think they could do with their lives even a fraction of the good he has done. Or better yet - meet the man in person for yourself and then let me know what you think about him and his knowledge and understanding of God.
In addition, he does not dispute that Muhammad was a messenger of God. He has read the entire Quran and does not dispute this is the Word of the Lord. Why does he not convert, you may ask? Due to his background, history and experiences, he has a duty to uphold the covenant of Abraham and the commandments of Moses. I respect and support his right to do that, and hope others will as well. Allah knows best who his servants are.
May Allah continue to guide the believers in the straight path.
Assalamu Alaikum sister Sa'diyah,
Assalamu Alaikum sister dianek,
Please read my post #37 on this thread by clicking on the following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153643&postcount=37
Sa'diyah asked the following question:
You'll find the answer in the link mentioned above.
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
Assalamu Alaikum sister dianek,
Please read my post #37 on this thread by clicking on the following link:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=153643&postcount=37
Sa'diyah asked the following question:
You'll find the answer in the link mentioned above.
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
Bawar
Struggling2Surrender
Assalamu alaikum all!
I read, enjoyed and learned alot of things from page 1-11.
It was a lot of reading for me, but it was good to read, except the links.
The conclusion is:
THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH
Allahu Akbar
see, how beautiful and sweet these words are. No need for twisting, turning, phylosophy...Just pure and simple fact.
Peace
I read, enjoyed and learned alot of things from page 1-11.
It was a lot of reading for me, but it was good to read, except the links.
The conclusion is:
THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT ALLAH
Allahu Akbar
see, how beautiful and sweet these words are. No need for twisting, turning, phylosophy...Just pure and simple fact.
Peace
When will we stop talking with our own desires and ignoring the word of the Most High
Thanks for your great comment, but there is the what Allah SWT say about his love to the mankind:
• "Yet they [people of the book] are not all alike. There are among the people of the book upright men who all night long recite the signs of Allah and worship him; who believe in Allah and the Last Day; who enjoin justice and forbid evil and hasten to do good works. These men are among the righteous; of the good that they do nothing will be rejected, for Allah acknowledges the righteous. As for those who reject faith [kafaru], neither their possessions nor their children shall in the least protect them from Allah. They are Companions of the Fire, where they shall remain [forever]." (Qur'an 3:10)
Light of other verses, I will simply add that those of the people of the book who deify and worship Jesus, no matter under what rationalization, are among those who openly do kufr. God has prohibited paradise for them.
• The Qur`an says that those who follow the Prophet receive God's hub (3:31)
Say, (O My Prophet to the people), "if you love God, follow me, (and) God will love you (hub) and forgive you your sins; for God is oft-forgiving, most merciful." (3:31)
• Precisely because of "our limited human faculty of discernment" we do not know the reality of mother Theresa "piety and works of righteousness". It may be mostly public relations and show. Also, the Qur`an talks about ihbat al-a‘mal, which means that in the presence of kufr and shirk the good deeds lose their value:
This is the guidance of God with which he guides whomsoever he wills of his slaves. But if they commit shirk, all that they used to do will come to nothing (habita). (6:88, see also 5:5, 9:17)
Some of the good deeds of those who commit kufr and shirk may also be rewarded in this world. In case of the Pope, all the power and praise he received in this world may well be a reward of the good deeds he might have done in this world. But, unless before his death he repented from the worship of Jesus, it is God’s promise that he will be a companion of the fire for eternity. May Allah save us from such a fate.
• This (Qur`an) is a reminder. So let everyone who wills, take a way to the Lord. But you will not will, unless wills God. Surely, God is full of knowledge and wisdom. He admits to His rahmah who He wills; but for the wrongdoers He has prepared a grievous penalty." (76:29-31; see also 81:27-29, 42:8
• "Verily those who say our Lord and Supporter (Rabb) is God and thereafter stand firm (in their faith in God) - no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. They are destined for paradise, therein to abide permanently as a reward for what they did." (46:13-14)
• "And they (the Jews and the Christians) claim, none shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. Such are their vain thoughts. Say, produce your proof, if you are truthful. Nay, but whosoever surrenders his self to God and is a doer of good, shall have his reward with his Lord; and all such need have no fear nor shall they grieve." (2: 111-112)
• When a sinner repents God is overjoyed. One tradition likens God's joy to that of a man who was traveling alone in a desert on a camel. He sleeps for the night and when he gets up he finds his camel missing. He searches for his beast for hours, during which time the sun warms up the desert and thirst and hunger bring the man close to extinction. Finally, he becomes exhausted and gives up the search; but just then he sees the camel walking towards him with all the water, food and other provisions. The happiness of God when a sinner returns to Him is like the happiness of this traveler at the moment when he sees his lost camel (Muslim sahih reproduced in Mishkat al-Masabih, Book IV, chap. 3).
• "Nothing brings men near to Me like the performance of that which I made obligatory upon them, and through supererogatory acts. My servant (i.e. man) comes even nearer to Me until I love him. When I have bestowed My love on him, I became (as if) his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his tongue with which he speaks, his hand with which he grasps, and his feet with which he walks" (al-Bukhari, Sahih, Riqaq, 38, reproduced in Mishkat al-Masabih, Book 9, chap.2).
• These verses reveal that while divine punishment is an act of God's will directed towards some purpose, love or rahmah is, as it were, His nature, His normal attitude towards men and other creatures. So it is said in 6:12, 15 that God "has enjoined upon Himself (the rule) of rahmah". It is possible to include in "all things" that are under the embrace of God's rahmah even those people who are punished, so that even divine punishment can be said to proceed in some way from rahmah. [It's through punishments and afflictions do we realize that we have crossed the natural boundaries of our existence. This, in turn, brings about a sense of awareness and self-knowledge, which in turn enables one to return to the middle and the balanced path where there is contentment and peace.]#
My punishment I inflict upon whom I will but My rahmah embraces all things... (7:156).
O our Sustainer! You embrace all things within (Your) rahmah and knowledge (40:7).
"And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as an act of love (rahmah) to all the worlds."(21:107)
The coming of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is especially a manifestation of God's rahmah and rafah (57:9; 6:155). He came as rahmat-al-lil-alamin (grace to all nations) and the revelation he brought is rahmah for all those who believe (10:57; 17:82 etc.).
------------------------------------------------------------
I answered to all your questions and will not anymore discuss the issue with you. You're free of the way (christian and jewish) you interpreting the words of Allah SWT.
ALLAH LOVE MUSLIMS!!! ALHAMDULILLAH YA RAB
Thanks for your great comment, but there is the what Allah SWT say about his love to the mankind:
• "Yet they [people of the book] are not all alike. There are among the people of the book upright men who all night long recite the signs of Allah and worship him; who believe in Allah and the Last Day; who enjoin justice and forbid evil and hasten to do good works. These men are among the righteous; of the good that they do nothing will be rejected, for Allah acknowledges the righteous. As for those who reject faith [kafaru], neither their possessions nor their children shall in the least protect them from Allah. They are Companions of the Fire, where they shall remain [forever]." (Qur'an 3:10)
Light of other verses, I will simply add that those of the people of the book who deify and worship Jesus, no matter under what rationalization, are among those who openly do kufr. God has prohibited paradise for them.
• The Qur`an says that those who follow the Prophet receive God's hub (3:31)
Say, (O My Prophet to the people), "if you love God, follow me, (and) God will love you (hub) and forgive you your sins; for God is oft-forgiving, most merciful." (3:31)
• Precisely because of "our limited human faculty of discernment" we do not know the reality of mother Theresa "piety and works of righteousness". It may be mostly public relations and show. Also, the Qur`an talks about ihbat al-a‘mal, which means that in the presence of kufr and shirk the good deeds lose their value:
This is the guidance of God with which he guides whomsoever he wills of his slaves. But if they commit shirk, all that they used to do will come to nothing (habita). (6:88, see also 5:5, 9:17)
Some of the good deeds of those who commit kufr and shirk may also be rewarded in this world. In case of the Pope, all the power and praise he received in this world may well be a reward of the good deeds he might have done in this world. But, unless before his death he repented from the worship of Jesus, it is God’s promise that he will be a companion of the fire for eternity. May Allah save us from such a fate.
• This (Qur`an) is a reminder. So let everyone who wills, take a way to the Lord. But you will not will, unless wills God. Surely, God is full of knowledge and wisdom. He admits to His rahmah who He wills; but for the wrongdoers He has prepared a grievous penalty." (76:29-31; see also 81:27-29, 42:8
• "Verily those who say our Lord and Supporter (Rabb) is God and thereafter stand firm (in their faith in God) - no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. They are destined for paradise, therein to abide permanently as a reward for what they did." (46:13-14)
• "And they (the Jews and the Christians) claim, none shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian. Such are their vain thoughts. Say, produce your proof, if you are truthful. Nay, but whosoever surrenders his self to God and is a doer of good, shall have his reward with his Lord; and all such need have no fear nor shall they grieve." (2: 111-112)
• When a sinner repents God is overjoyed. One tradition likens God's joy to that of a man who was traveling alone in a desert on a camel. He sleeps for the night and when he gets up he finds his camel missing. He searches for his beast for hours, during which time the sun warms up the desert and thirst and hunger bring the man close to extinction. Finally, he becomes exhausted and gives up the search; but just then he sees the camel walking towards him with all the water, food and other provisions. The happiness of God when a sinner returns to Him is like the happiness of this traveler at the moment when he sees his lost camel (Muslim sahih reproduced in Mishkat al-Masabih, Book IV, chap. 3).
• "Nothing brings men near to Me like the performance of that which I made obligatory upon them, and through supererogatory acts. My servant (i.e. man) comes even nearer to Me until I love him. When I have bestowed My love on him, I became (as if) his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his tongue with which he speaks, his hand with which he grasps, and his feet with which he walks" (al-Bukhari, Sahih, Riqaq, 38, reproduced in Mishkat al-Masabih, Book 9, chap.2).
• These verses reveal that while divine punishment is an act of God's will directed towards some purpose, love or rahmah is, as it were, His nature, His normal attitude towards men and other creatures. So it is said in 6:12, 15 that God "has enjoined upon Himself (the rule) of rahmah". It is possible to include in "all things" that are under the embrace of God's rahmah even those people who are punished, so that even divine punishment can be said to proceed in some way from rahmah. [It's through punishments and afflictions do we realize that we have crossed the natural boundaries of our existence. This, in turn, brings about a sense of awareness and self-knowledge, which in turn enables one to return to the middle and the balanced path where there is contentment and peace.]#
My punishment I inflict upon whom I will but My rahmah embraces all things... (7:156).
O our Sustainer! You embrace all things within (Your) rahmah and knowledge (40:7).
"And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as an act of love (rahmah) to all the worlds."(21:107)
The coming of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is especially a manifestation of God's rahmah and rafah (57:9; 6:155). He came as rahmat-al-lil-alamin (grace to all nations) and the revelation he brought is rahmah for all those who believe (10:57; 17:82 etc.).
------------------------------------------------------------
I answered to all your questions and will not anymore discuss the issue with you. You're free of the way (christian and jewish) you interpreting the words of Allah SWT.
ALLAH LOVE MUSLIMS!!! ALHAMDULILLAH YA RAB
WHAT???
SORRY BUT HAVE TO SAY THAT AS A NEW REVERT YOU HAVE TO LEARN MUCH MORE THEN WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE LAW OF ISLAM, TO DISCUSS SUCH ISSUES OR GIVING US THE SAME ADVICES AS CHRISTIANS AND JEWISHES!!!
• Precisely because of "our limited human faculty of discernment" we do not know the reality of Theresa and Elie Wiesel "piety and works of righteousness". It may be mostly public relations and show. Also, the Qur`an talks about ihbat al-a‘mal, which means that in the presence of kufr and shirk the good deeds lose their value:
This is the guidance of God with which he guides whomsoever he wills of his slaves. But if they commit shirk, all that they used to do will come to nothing (habita). (6:88, see also 5:5, 9:17)
SORRY BUT HAVE TO SAY THAT AS A NEW REVERT YOU HAVE TO LEARN MUCH MORE THEN WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE LAW OF ISLAM, TO DISCUSS SUCH ISSUES OR GIVING US THE SAME ADVICES AS CHRISTIANS AND JEWISHES!!!
• Precisely because of "our limited human faculty of discernment" we do not know the reality of Theresa and Elie Wiesel "piety and works of righteousness". It may be mostly public relations and show. Also, the Qur`an talks about ihbat al-a‘mal, which means that in the presence of kufr and shirk the good deeds lose their value:
This is the guidance of God with which he guides whomsoever he wills of his slaves. But if they commit shirk, all that they used to do will come to nothing (habita). (6:88, see also 5:5, 9:17)
I will say asaalam alaikum to you Jamafg, I sense so much anger and hatred in your writing; that is very sad. I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. I do know one thing, I do not hate anybody, I love people, just for being people, a creation of Allah(swt). On the other hand you have stated several times throughout your posts, that you hate Christians and Jews and all whom are not muslims. You also said being nice to them is ok but loving them is against Islam. That sounds hypocritical to me. If you do not see a problem with that, then God will be the judge of your actions. You can write a 20 page post explaining and dictating, but the whole point is: We should love one another as God loves us. And whe should be a good example of a follower of Allah.
Blessings on to you
Blessings on to you
TheHumbleWun
Banned
Salaam sister,
It's one thing to be respectful and be nice and another to love them. Islam teaches us to respect all people. Love has a completely different meaning. Christians brainwash people when they say "Jesus loves you," to answer & solve all their questions and concerns. Islam teaches us that Allah swt loves us too but we have a duty and purpose on this earth as well! Islam gives complete guidance and answers for every action. What good is love when ultimately our actions will determine our end? We love Allah swt (and Allah swt loves us) when we are worshiping Him (i.e. praying, fasting), following the Quran & Sunnah.
Allah swt shined his Noor (light) upon the believers. The People of the Book were repeatedly given the words of God and they blasphemed God and rejected the revelations that were sent to them. See below:
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)"
"O ye who believe! Take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport - whether among those who received the Scripture (i.e., the Bible) before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have Faith (indeed). (The Noble Quran, 5:57)"
Allah swt loves some People of the Book (Christians & Jews):
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)"
Please see these scholarly opinions as well. They both say the same thing.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=11793&dgn=3
Take my words, I use to have a lot of non-Muslim friends, but over time as I studied Islam and became more religious, I started losing them. I don't know how. Every day I had less contact. It's inevitable because Allah swt puts like this flickering light upon us. About 98% of my friends are now Muslims. Alhamdulillah.
abou haytam
Junior Member
salam sister;
I would give you an exemple of our prophet(pbuh). He loved his uncl abdulmottalib as he take care of him and he even protect him from kuffar of mekkah. can you compare the protection of our prophet (pbuh) to the good deeds of Teresa or someone else? and when his (pbuh) uncl is diying ...read this plz :
1 – It was narrated from Sa’eed ibn al-Musayyib that his father said: “When Abu Taalib was on his deathbed, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) entered upon him, and Abu Jahl and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Abi Umayyah were present. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘O uncle, say Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah, and I will plead for you before Allaah.’ Abu Jahl and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Abi Umayyah said: ‘O Abu Taalib, will you turn away from the religion of ‘Abd al-Muttalib?’ The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘I will keep on praying for forgiveness for you until I am forbidden (by Allaah) to do so.” Then the following aayah was revealed:
“It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allaah’s forgiveness for the Mushrikoon, even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire (because they died in a state of disbelief)”
[al-Tawbah 9:113]
Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4398; Muslim, 24
What I put in red mean that even the love of our prophet (pbuh) to his uncl did not save him from fire. So his uncl (pbuh) is going to hell. When it comes to the truth sister. love don t take place.
here are an exemple from qoran. it s the prophet Nooh (pbuh) and his son, of course nooh love his son as a son but not as a kaffir.
"And it was said: "O earth! Swallow up your water, and O sky! Withhold (your rain)." And the water was made to subside and the Decree (of Allâh) was fulfilled (i.e. the destruction of the people of Nûh (Noah). And it (the ship) rested on Mount Judi, and it was said: "Away with the people who are Zalimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers)!" (44) And Nûh (Noah) called upon his Lord and said, "O my Lord! Verily, my son is of my family! And certainly, Your Promise is true, and You are the Most Just of the judges." (45) He said: "O Nûh (Noah)! Surely, he is not of your family; verily, his work is unrighteous, so ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge! I admonish you, lest you be one of the ignorant." (46) Nûh (Noah) said: "O my Lord! I seek refuge with You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have Mercy on me, I will indeed be one of the losers." (47)[sourat Houd]
Tell me sister if allah love the uncl of our prophet (pbuh) and the son of Nooh(pbuh) why he send them to hell?
and it s clear in the aya..allah said : " He (allah )said: "O Nûh (Noah)! Surely, he(son of Nooh) is not of your(Nouh) family.
Conclusion :
to associate something or whership something else else except allah IS NOT A JOKE.
__________________________________________________________________
I invite you to see the response to this question:
Making friends with a kaafir woman
Question:
Is it allowed for a muslim woman to be friends with a non-muslim woman who is very decent, without neglecting her one religion and is there a severe punishment if she does?
Answer:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=23325&ln=eng&txt=عبد المطلب
_______________________________________________
I want also add that in isalm there is something called : (oyalty and friendship vs. disavowal and enmity in arabic : الولاء والبراء
check the answer to this question to learn what is about :
Can he pray for his Christian friend to be healed?
Question:
I have a Christian friend whom I love very much, and he is one of the Christians who are praised in the Qur’aan. Now he is very sick; does Islam allow me to pray to Allaah to heal him?.
Answer:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=47322&ln=eng&txt=الولاء
_____________________________________________________
i have non muslim freind, they help me a lot they are here for me always when i need sonething....i love the kind and sweet humain being they are and i hate the evil fact they don t beleive in Allah and mock islam.
Assalamu Alaikum dear brother TheHumbleWun,
You wrote the following in post #110:
If by "us" you mean the whole human race [Muslim and non Muslim] then I must disagree. Allah the Almighty stated clearly in two verses of the Qur'an that he does not love [لا يحب] the unbelievers.
The translation found at the King Fahd Complex translates this phrase as "not like", but the better translation is "not love". Still, I'll post the translation as it is on the King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an website:
[The translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:32 and footnote [1] is from the website of the King Fahd complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an]:
http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?nSora=3&l=eng&nAya=32#3_32
Allah the Almighty has also said:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 30:45]
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
You wrote the following in post #110:
If by "us" you mean the whole human race [Muslim and non Muslim] then I must disagree. Allah the Almighty stated clearly in two verses of the Qur'an that he does not love [لا يحب] the unbelievers.
The translation found at the King Fahd Complex translates this phrase as "not like", but the better translation is "not love". Still, I'll post the translation as it is on the King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an website:
[The translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:32 and footnote [1] is from the website of the King Fahd complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an]:
http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?nSora=3&l=eng&nAya=32#3_32
Allah the Almighty has also said:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 30:45]
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
BrotherZak
Junior Member
ATTENTION
Some verses in the quran regarding the Kufar and the disbelievers describe a people who after having been presented with Islam in the right manner..still reject it and arrogantly persist in the wrong. The disbelievers at the prophets time actually saw prophet Mohammed and observed his character and miracles and the quran..yet still rejected him while knowing the truth. Those people Allah does not love...NOT THE COMMON WESTERNER WHO HAS NEVER HEARD OF THE DEEN OR HAS NEVER BEEN GIVING ANY FORM OF DAWAH..REMEMBER ALLAH SAYS IN THE QURAN to the effect that a warner must come to offer guidance before punishment.
Here is a question posed to a scholar which i totally agree with
Title:
Are Christians Mushrik (Polytheists) or Kaafir (Rejecters)?
Question:
Should Christians be considered as Mushrik because they worship the person of Jesus Christ, and there is no forgiveness for that as Allah has told us [in the Qur'an ]. Or Kaafir because Allah tells us that everyone who attributes a son to God is a Kaafir.
Answer:
Before I answer your specific question, it would be appropriate to first take a close look at the two terms "Mushrik" and "Kaafir", as only after that can we say whether the Christians, Jews or adherents of any other religion fall in these categories or not.
Let us first take the term "Kaafir". "Kaafir" in the Arabic language means "rejecter". The term "Kaafir", normally taken to be synonymous with "non-Muslim" or "non-believer", is quite different from the two terms. A "non-Muslim", obviously, is a person who does not adhere to the Muslim faith. Thus, all those who do not ascribe to the Muslim faith are "non-Muslims". A "non-believer" is generally used for a person who does not believe in God and the Day of Judgment. "Kaafir", on the other hand, is a person who knowingly rejects the truth. A person may not believe in some 'truth' for a number of reasons. For instance, he may not be fully convinced of some aspect of that 'truth' or he may have some doubts in his mind regarding that truth. However, if all doubts are removed from his mind and he becomes fully convinced of that truth, yet he persists in not accepting it or persists in ascribing to a wrong belief after becoming certain of its incorrectness, he then becomes a "Kaafir" and is no longer just a "non-Muslim" or a "non-believer".
In other words, all those people who persist in not accepting Islam after being fully convinced that Islam is the truth of the Almighty or persist in ascribing to a false belief after being convinced of its incorrectness are "Kaafirs" or rejecters of the truth. All others for our purposes are "non-Muslims" or "non-believers ".
This explanation, if considered closely, should clarify the fact that we cannot call anyone a "Kaafir" unless we have absolute knowledge of the reasons for his rejection of faith (or Islam), which we do not possess. Thus, for the purpose of this world, we should not call anyone a "Kaafir". It is only God, Who with His absolute knowledge can declare someone a "Kaafir". No one besides God possesses the knowledge that is essential to declare someone a "Kaafir".
Thus, we know on the basis of God's declaration in the Qur'an that the Jews and the Christians (and those ascribing to other faiths) during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) refused to believe in the Prophet (pbuh) even after being fully convinced of his prophethood and were, therefore, termed "Kaafir" by the Almighty. As far as the Jews and the Christians of later times are concerned, we do not have adequate knowledge of the reasons for their rejection to term them "Kaafir". God, on the Day of Judgment, shall give the decision regarding these Jews and Christians. Those, among them, who refused to accept Islam and the prophethood of Mohammed (pbuh), although they were fully convinced of it being the truth, shall stand in the category of "Kaafirs" on the Day of Judgment.
The term "Mushrik", like the term "Kaafir" has also been slightly misused. It is not just ascribing to a polytheistic belief that makes a person a "Mushrik". According to the Qur'an , "Mushrik" is one who ascribes partners to God. Christians, though ascribe to a polytheistic belief, according to the Muslim understanding of polytheism, yet they do not ascribe partners to God. They believe that there is only one God and He does not have any partners. Yet they ascribe to a belief, which in the eyes of the Muslims and according to the Qur'an is a polytheistic belief. Christians, according to the Qur'an , would have been called "Mushrik" had they believed that ascribing a son to God is a polytheistic belief and would still have ascribed to that belief.
The above should also explain why the Qur'an , even though it has pointed out that the Jews and the Christians of the times of the Prophet (pbuh) ascribe to some polytheistic beliefs has not addressed them as "Mushrik". The Qur'an has only addressed the Banu-Ishmael and other Arab polytheists who clearly ascribed to polytheism by the term "Mushrik" (as should be clear from Al-Baqarah 2: 105, Aal Imraan 3: 67, Surah Al-Taubah 9: 1 - 33, Al-Bayyinah 98: 1).
In the light of the above explanation, in my opinion, the Christians should not be called "Mushrik" or "Kaafir". We may say that Christians ascribe to polytheistic beliefs but should not call them polytheists, as the Qur'an has not called them polytheists. Likewise, we can call them "non-Muslims", but should not call them "Kaafir", as we do not know who among them has knowingly rejected Islam and who has not accepted Islam because he was not convinced of it being the final truth from God.
27th December 1999
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=140
Some verses in the quran regarding the Kufar and the disbelievers describe a people who after having been presented with Islam in the right manner..still reject it and arrogantly persist in the wrong. The disbelievers at the prophets time actually saw prophet Mohammed and observed his character and miracles and the quran..yet still rejected him while knowing the truth. Those people Allah does not love...NOT THE COMMON WESTERNER WHO HAS NEVER HEARD OF THE DEEN OR HAS NEVER BEEN GIVING ANY FORM OF DAWAH..REMEMBER ALLAH SAYS IN THE QURAN to the effect that a warner must come to offer guidance before punishment.
Here is a question posed to a scholar which i totally agree with
Title:
Are Christians Mushrik (Polytheists) or Kaafir (Rejecters)?
Question:
Should Christians be considered as Mushrik because they worship the person of Jesus Christ, and there is no forgiveness for that as Allah has told us [in the Qur'an ]. Or Kaafir because Allah tells us that everyone who attributes a son to God is a Kaafir.
Answer:
Before I answer your specific question, it would be appropriate to first take a close look at the two terms "Mushrik" and "Kaafir", as only after that can we say whether the Christians, Jews or adherents of any other religion fall in these categories or not.
Let us first take the term "Kaafir". "Kaafir" in the Arabic language means "rejecter". The term "Kaafir", normally taken to be synonymous with "non-Muslim" or "non-believer", is quite different from the two terms. A "non-Muslim", obviously, is a person who does not adhere to the Muslim faith. Thus, all those who do not ascribe to the Muslim faith are "non-Muslims". A "non-believer" is generally used for a person who does not believe in God and the Day of Judgment. "Kaafir", on the other hand, is a person who knowingly rejects the truth. A person may not believe in some 'truth' for a number of reasons. For instance, he may not be fully convinced of some aspect of that 'truth' or he may have some doubts in his mind regarding that truth. However, if all doubts are removed from his mind and he becomes fully convinced of that truth, yet he persists in not accepting it or persists in ascribing to a wrong belief after becoming certain of its incorrectness, he then becomes a "Kaafir" and is no longer just a "non-Muslim" or a "non-believer".
In other words, all those people who persist in not accepting Islam after being fully convinced that Islam is the truth of the Almighty or persist in ascribing to a false belief after being convinced of its incorrectness are "Kaafirs" or rejecters of the truth. All others for our purposes are "non-Muslims" or "non-believers ".
This explanation, if considered closely, should clarify the fact that we cannot call anyone a "Kaafir" unless we have absolute knowledge of the reasons for his rejection of faith (or Islam), which we do not possess. Thus, for the purpose of this world, we should not call anyone a "Kaafir". It is only God, Who with His absolute knowledge can declare someone a "Kaafir". No one besides God possesses the knowledge that is essential to declare someone a "Kaafir".
Thus, we know on the basis of God's declaration in the Qur'an that the Jews and the Christians (and those ascribing to other faiths) during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) refused to believe in the Prophet (pbuh) even after being fully convinced of his prophethood and were, therefore, termed "Kaafir" by the Almighty. As far as the Jews and the Christians of later times are concerned, we do not have adequate knowledge of the reasons for their rejection to term them "Kaafir". God, on the Day of Judgment, shall give the decision regarding these Jews and Christians. Those, among them, who refused to accept Islam and the prophethood of Mohammed (pbuh), although they were fully convinced of it being the truth, shall stand in the category of "Kaafirs" on the Day of Judgment.
The term "Mushrik", like the term "Kaafir" has also been slightly misused. It is not just ascribing to a polytheistic belief that makes a person a "Mushrik". According to the Qur'an , "Mushrik" is one who ascribes partners to God. Christians, though ascribe to a polytheistic belief, according to the Muslim understanding of polytheism, yet they do not ascribe partners to God. They believe that there is only one God and He does not have any partners. Yet they ascribe to a belief, which in the eyes of the Muslims and according to the Qur'an is a polytheistic belief. Christians, according to the Qur'an , would have been called "Mushrik" had they believed that ascribing a son to God is a polytheistic belief and would still have ascribed to that belief.
The above should also explain why the Qur'an , even though it has pointed out that the Jews and the Christians of the times of the Prophet (pbuh) ascribe to some polytheistic beliefs has not addressed them as "Mushrik". The Qur'an has only addressed the Banu-Ishmael and other Arab polytheists who clearly ascribed to polytheism by the term "Mushrik" (as should be clear from Al-Baqarah 2: 105, Aal Imraan 3: 67, Surah Al-Taubah 9: 1 - 33, Al-Bayyinah 98: 1).
In the light of the above explanation, in my opinion, the Christians should not be called "Mushrik" or "Kaafir". We may say that Christians ascribe to polytheistic beliefs but should not call them polytheists, as the Qur'an has not called them polytheists. Likewise, we can call them "non-Muslims", but should not call them "Kaafir", as we do not know who among them has knowingly rejected Islam and who has not accepted Islam because he was not convinced of it being the final truth from God.
27th December 1999
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=140
Munawar
Striving for Paradise
:salam2: Bravo sister Sa'diyah,
You are absolutely right. I have thought about why some people think like that, that Allah (SWT) hates all non-Muslims, and I think it is because of the English word "love".
We all know that Allah (SWT) has said in the Quran that those who will reject his message will be punished in the hell fire. Some people think that since Allah will punish them in the hell fire so He must hate them too. And this is creating the confusion.
You know if you have 2 children, one is obedient and the other is not. If you punish the child who is disobedient then does that mean that you also hate that child. NO !!! You still very much love that child, and this love, which comes from Allah (SWT) is a tiny fraction of that love Allah (SWT) has for His creations, from which He has distributed a tiny fraction among His creations. So I don't understand how someone can think that Allah (SWT) who created humans hate them just because He is punishing them for their wrong doings.
Sister Mairo is so right when she asked that if you are supposed to hate all non-Muslims then how/why Allah allowed Muslim men to marry Jew and Christian women. To hate them ???
So, I think it is the word "love" which is creating confusion. Also since some of these people were born in Muslim families so they have no idea what a person goes thru during the conversion process and the impact on the relationship with family members who are non-Muslim. They are totally oblivious to it. And to me this is more remarkable since Islam puts so much emphasis on love and respect for your parents and how to behave with your parents and your siblings and your family members regardless whether they are Muslim or not. We can see tons of examples in the time of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). How he loved his uncle Abu Talib even though he was not a Muslim, and the behaviour of sahabaas with their non-muslim family members etc.
I think since this is just a mute point to have further discussion on this topic, I will not post anything further on this thread.
If I have said anything wrong then please forgive me.
TheHumbleWun
Banned
blackivy393
Junior Member
almost every religion has developed some type of symbol to identify those who are followers are least claim to follow that doesnt make the religion bogus. even the star of david is something that has not been prescribed by the torah. and if you believe chrisitianity, is a man made religion? if so you believe islam is a God inspired religion that also supports a religion that is man-mad?, and if a religion is man-made you must agree the religious text is not God inspired. so in thus you're contradicting your own beliefs islam has on christianity
Mairo
Maryama
Asalaam aleikum all,
TheHumbleWun, your explanation is very astute and wise. It is important for us to take into account ALL of the message of the Quran. You explained what I was trying to convey in a much more succinct fashion.
To remember that not just the fact that this is important direction:
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors; they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (The Noble Quran, 5:51)"
"O ye who believe! Take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport - whether among those who received the Scripture (i.e., the Bible) before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have Faith (indeed). (The Noble Quran, 5:57)"
But also to remember that Allah swt loves some People of the Book (Christians & Jews):
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)"
When I was talking about "love and kindness toward non-Muslims", it was more in the sense of what Jesus, peace be upon him, commanded to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." A good example of this in practice by the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the story that was posted by Munawar earlier:
In addition, I also relate very well to what you explained here, the same has happened in my own life:
That is the truth.
[3.179] On no account will Allah leave the believers in the condition which you are in until He separates the evil from the good; nor is Allah going to make you acquainted with the unseen, but Allah chooses of His apostles whom He pleases; therefore believe in Allah and His apostles; and if you believe and guard (against evil), then you shall have a great reward.
God bless
blackivy393
Junior Member
Circumsion is part of the old covenent, in new testament scriptures through the coming of the messiah, mosaic law no longer has to be practiced in order 2 gain salvation. the mosiac laws prescribed mostly about dietary law, certian ceremonial cleanings, animal sacrifice for sins et.
i have listed in previous posts why chrisitians believe Jesus is God
the childrens characters situated around xmas (santa claus) easter bunny is not part of the holidays but is currently a tool used for commericalism of these holidays. these holidays have been aside in order so christians can join together to make a big day of celebrating parts of our beliefs. these holidays were placed on or near pagan holiday of old europe and elsewhere in order 2 stamp out pagan religions and facilitate conversions. the concepts of original sin or trinity is bascially terms used, so you dont have 2 quote the dozen of scriptures attached to each belief. i.e. how jews are going 2 have a bris or circumsion , this is not a term in the bible but its a word 2 describe the rituals and part of the bible God commands. its words used by those who are in the religion, when the followers say words or different terms, we know what part of the bible they're referring to.
"They were artificially created in the Council of Nicea to fix something, i.e. why God sent his Son to die. This is just like to hide a lie one has to lie many more times"
Death of Christ, description of someone dying on the Christ in (psalms which predates the time of christ by @ least 2000 years, yes , that version is in possesion) predates the council of Nicea. a lot of the "beliefs" of christianity some of you guys think were created in differnt committies is beliefs that existed @ least 1000 years before Christ, Christianity, or these constantine etc. if you look at the history channel which often times talks about how the bible was part together, it was mostly to determine that the holy bible only contained christian/jewish text and not gnostic text(cult text).
there is in the world's possession 2,000 year old copy of the old testament which is 95% match in words to the copies people sit in church with everyday. with things being different .. maybe someone instead of saying bread , says soft cracker. new testament, copies of originial no older than 100 years after christ's death in possession, match. so yea.... it must be man made because even if they do match , its still man made.
abou haytam
Junior Member
slaam sister;
We have to respoect humain beign, we have to respect animals and we have to respect choices of others. But what i understand in your post is like a kind of love and wishing and "praying" for Teresa and Elie Wiesel( i would like to correct here that our Mothers are wifes of our prophet(pbuh) ) even if she is known by this name.).
If they don t accept islam they are going to hell. (please remind that i say IF ..) .whatever what they think or they did....please see my post numer 111.
Here are a a hadeeth to response to what i bold in your post about followinf 10 commandent:
It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) became angry when he saw that ‘Umar had a page with something from the Tawraat written on it, and he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Are you in doubt, O son of al-Khattaab? Have I not brought you something shining and pure? If my brother Moosa were alive, he would have no choice but to follow me.” (Narrated by Ahmad and al-Daarimi, and others).
SO sister If Moosa(pbuh) were alive, he would have no choice but to follow our prophet (pbuh), What about Elie Wiesel?
I invite you to read this sister.
If a Jew or Christian believes that Allaah is One but does not rule according to the Qur’aan
Question:
If today there is a jew or a christian who believes in Alaah and that he has no partner. He believes in the prophethood of the Messenger of Allaah . But he does not rule by the Qur'aan even though he accepts it as being from Allaah, but he deems it permissible to rule by the original torah. Is he a muslim. This needs a quick response if you can , for dawah purposes. Jazak Allaahu Khair.
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
We sent this question to our Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak, who replied as follows:
Praise be to Allaah.
Among the basic principles of faith are Belief in all the Books that have been revealed from Allaah, and belief in all the Messengers. These two principles include belief in the noblest of Books, which is the Qur’aan, and the best of the Messengers, namely Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), the Seal of the Messengers and the Messenger of Allaah to all of mankind from the time when Allaah sent him until the time when the Hour will begin. Every person from every nation must believe in him and follow him and rule by his sharee’ah (laws). Whoever claims to believe in him and in the Qur’aan, but does not rule according to it or follow him in everything that he brought and believe everything he told us, is not a Muslim or a believer. If he dies like this then he will be one of the people of Hell. If he claims to believe in Allaah Alone, with no partner or associate, and in all the Messengers, belief in the Messenger and in the Qur’aan does not only mean believing that they are true, without following them and ruling according to what they say. Many of the Mushrikeen believed in the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in their hearts, and there were those who believed in him in their hearts and in the words they spoke, but this did not benefit them at all, like his uncle Abu Taalib. This belief did not help them at all when they insisted on not following. Similarly, the Jews and Christians who knew him as they knew their sons, and who admitted that they believed in the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but this knowledge and belief did not benefit them at all when they refused to follow him. They were kaafirs and Allaah decreed their blood and their wealth to be permissible for His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he fought them, and Allaah caused him to prevail over them, and His religion to prevail over all other religions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) with guidance and the religion of truth (islam), to make it superior over all religions, even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) hate (it).” [al-Tawbah 9:33]
So every Jew and Christian has to enter the religion of Islam which Allaah revealed to His Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), because the Message of Muhammad is the final Message, which abrogates the previous religions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And whoever seeks a religion other than islam, it will never be accepted of him” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
According to a saheeh hadeeth: “By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no one among this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me than dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hellfire.” (Reported by Muslim, 218).
On this basis, the religion of any Jew or Christian will not be correct unless he believes in the sharee’ah of Islam and adheres to the rulings of the Holy Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is Muhaymin (i.e., it testifies to the truth that is in the previous scriptures and exposes the falsehood that has been added to them), and it abrogates the previous Books. The Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel) have been abrogated and have been changed and altered. And Allaah knows best.
Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Barraak
source:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=4322&ln=eng&txt=التوراة
___________________________________
Assalamu Alaikum BrotherZak,
There are three main points I'd like to make clear:
1- We don not know who wrote the opinion you referred to in post #113.
2- I agree with you that God Almighty does not automatically condemn non Muslims to Hell if the message of Islam did not reach them.
I further add that the message of Islam has to reach them in a clear and undistorted way. Then if they die as non Muslims will they enter Hell to abide therein forever.
3- Where I disagree with you, however, is that you believe that we cannot call these non Muslims who are ignorant towards Islam as Kuffaar because [in your mind] being a Kaafir necessarily means that the message of Islam has reached the person and he rejected it.
A Kaafir simply means unbeliever or disbeliever. There's no insult in the word. In fact, sometimes the verb Yakfur [disbelieve] is used in the Qur'an to commend Muslims who disbelieved in falsehood.
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:256]
Source: http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targa...ItemID=1&l=eng&t=eng&SecOrder=4&SubSecOrder=1
What I'm saying is that being a Kaafir [unbeliever] is only one of many conditions to condemn one to Hell forever. To go to hell forever, one must:
1- Be a Kaafir [unbeliever]
2- The message of Islam has reached this Kaafir [unbeliever] in a clear and undistorted way.
3- He dies without accepting Islam
If an unbeliever [Kaafir] dies without hearing of Islam at all or having heard it in a distorted way, then this person will be tested on the Day of Judgment. If he succeeds, he'll enter Heaven. And if he fails, he'll enter Hell.
To see the evidence that backs up all that I said, please read the following 3 pages carefully:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=2
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=3
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=4
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum
There are three main points I'd like to make clear:
1- We don not know who wrote the opinion you referred to in post #113.
2- I agree with you that God Almighty does not automatically condemn non Muslims to Hell if the message of Islam did not reach them.
I further add that the message of Islam has to reach them in a clear and undistorted way. Then if they die as non Muslims will they enter Hell to abide therein forever.
3- Where I disagree with you, however, is that you believe that we cannot call these non Muslims who are ignorant towards Islam as Kuffaar because [in your mind] being a Kaafir necessarily means that the message of Islam has reached the person and he rejected it.
A Kaafir simply means unbeliever or disbeliever. There's no insult in the word. In fact, sometimes the verb Yakfur [disbelieve] is used in the Qur'an to commend Muslims who disbelieved in falsehood.
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:256]
Source: http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targa...ItemID=1&l=eng&t=eng&SecOrder=4&SubSecOrder=1
What I'm saying is that being a Kaafir [unbeliever] is only one of many conditions to condemn one to Hell forever. To go to hell forever, one must:
1- Be a Kaafir [unbeliever]
2- The message of Islam has reached this Kaafir [unbeliever] in a clear and undistorted way.
3- He dies without accepting Islam
If an unbeliever [Kaafir] dies without hearing of Islam at all or having heard it in a distorted way, then this person will be tested on the Day of Judgment. If he succeeds, he'll enter Heaven. And if he fails, he'll enter Hell.
To see the evidence that backs up all that I said, please read the following 3 pages carefully:
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=2
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=3
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=4
Best regards,
Bluegazer
Wassalamu Alaikum