~*~*~Islamic Word Meaning~*~*~

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Assalaamu `alaykum

Remember, the narration is generally accepted- but it is that extra addition that is not accepted.

Hope that did not confuse anyone.

Wassalaamu `alaykum

Wa alaykumasalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

Jazakallah khair, this explanation is beautiful.

What about Al-hakim's definition?

One last question:

Read this

The sunnah with regards to pointing is to move the forefinger throughout the tashahhud, in accordance with the hadeeth of Wail ibn Hujr(ra) -which is reported by Ahmad(4/138), Abu Daawood (no.727), an-Nasaaee(2/236), ad-Daarimee (1/314-315), Ibn ul-Jaarood(no.208) and Ibn Khuzaimah (no.714) with Saheeh isnaad and there occurs in it, "...then he closed his fingers and made a ring,then he raised his finger and I saw him moving it and making duaa with it, then I came in a time and when it was cold and so I saw the people with cloaks upon them moving their hands beneath their clothes due to the cold".

As for the hadeeth of Abdullah ibn az-Zubair(ra)-where in is mentioned that the prophet (sallallahu aleihi wa sallam) used to point with his finger when he made duaa and not move it. It is reported by Abu Dawood(no.989); its isnaad is not authentic since it contains Muhammad ibn 'Ajalah, about whom adh-Dhabee says, "of average memory," The ahadeeth of the like of him are not acceptable if they contradict anyone who is more reliable than him and his narration becomes shaadh and therefore Muslim does not report from him except to endorse something. Even if this hadeeth were established, then it is a denial and the hadeeth of Waail ibn Hujr is affirming.That which affirms is taken over that which denies, since the one who affirms something has an increase in knowledge and he knows is a proof against he who does not.This sunnah is also from the sayings of Imaam Maalik(ra)-as occurs in the book ar-Risaalah of Abdullah ibn Abee Zaid al-Qairwanee al-Maalikee (p.27) and the book al-Fiqh alal madhaahib il-Arbaah(no.98).Imaam Ahmad was asked,Should a man point his finger in the Prayer? So he said,"Yes strongly." See Masaail ul-Imaam Ahmad,the narration of Ibn Haani(1/80).

Source
So which is the hadith from waa'il ibn hujr, and which is shaadh?

Let me give a contemporary example that is discussed by many scholars- just giving it so you guys can do more reading on this inshaa'Allaah.

We are girls (the three who are playing) akhi.

Oh and Jen's right, answer the next word too please.


Jazakallah khair.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Sister,

If I'm understanding it correctly, the part that says "I saw him moving it" is shaadh while the rest is accurate (since other scholars have recorded it as well).

And if you read the the Second paragraph of what I quoted it says:

As for the hadeeth of Abdullah ibn az-Zubair(ra)-where in is mentioned that the prophet (sallallahu aleihi wa sallam) used to point with his finger when he made duaa and not move it. It is reported by Abu Dawood(no.989); its isnaad is not authentic since it contains Muhammad ibn 'Ajalah, about whom adh-Dhabee says, "of average memory," The ahadeeth of the like of him are not acceptable if they contradict anyone who is more reliable than him and his narration becomes shaadh

Further it says:

Even if this hadeeth were established, then it is a denial and the hadeeth of Waail ibn Hujr is affirming.That which affirms is taken over that which denies, since the one who affirms something has an increase in knowledge and he knows is a proof against he who does not.

Sh. Albaani is quoted waail hadeeth as:
...then he closed his fingers and made a ring,then he raised his finger and I saw him moving it and making duaa with it, then I came in a time and when it was cold and so I saw the people with cloaks upon them moving their hands beneath their clothes due to the cold".
He says this is authentic and not shaadh, and that the hadeeth that narrates that the prophet did "not" move his finger is shaadh.

The scholars in Akhi thariq's post have judged the narration from waail about "moving the finger" to be shaadh, while Sh. Albaani Judged the narration from Az-Aubair aout "not moving the finger" as shaadh.

I hope you are getting my question here.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
And if you read the the Second paragraph of what I quoted it says:



Further it says:



Sh. Albaani is quoted waail hadeeth as:

He says this is authentic and not shaadh, and that the hadeeth that narrates that the prophet did "not" move his finger is shaadh.

The scholars in Akhi thariq's post have judged the narration from waail about "moving the finger" to be shaadh, while Sh. Albaani Judged the narration from Az-Aubair aout "not moving the finger" as shaadh.

I hope you are getting my question here.


*moving finger around while pointing it at Seeking*..."don't confuse me with logic!"...lol!I'll have to reread it over and over to try and allow the Arabic to sink in before I can get unconfused...or, a certain Brother who has been participating who shall remain nameless, could straighten this whole mess out for us...;)
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
What about Al-hakim's definition?

What about it? It seems straight forward to me.

So which is the hadith from waa'il ibn hujr, and which is shaadh?

Both the hadeeth are not the same. One hadeeth is from Waa'il ibn Hujr (the Sahaabi) and the other hadeeth is from the Sahaabi- `Abdullaah ibn al-Zubayr [and both comes from more than one Isnaad (chains of narration) and both the hadeeth talk about the Prophet :saw2: sitting in Tashahhud. However, shaykh al-Albaanee considered that "not moving it" is shaadhdh and he accepted the addition of "I saw him moving it" due to the ways he reconciled the 'contradicting' ahaadeeth. There is a difference of opinion on this matter amongst contemporary scholars and Shaykh al-Albaanee, Ibn `Uthaymeen were from the scholars who did not consider "I saw him moving it" as Shaadhdh. However, one should look into the classical scholars and their verdicts on such issues too.

We are girls (the three who are playing) akhi.

Apologies- I was referring to everyone who reads the thread/ post.

^Jazaa'kAllaahu khayr, akhy!
Brother Thaariq, could you be so kind as to also explain I'lla?? After reading much, I saw that it means 'hidden cause' behind a hadeeth.. Could you elaborate on that ?:)

BaarakAllaahu feek. May Allaah increase you in beneficial knowledge.

`Illah or `Ilal (plural) generally refers to a hidden defect in the isnaad (chain) or the Matn (text) of a narration.

This is the most difficult science to master and few from the scholars have mastered this. This takes years and years of experience and extremely high knowledge of `Ilm al-Rijaal (Science about the men- who narrate hadeeth) and very very high precision.

An example for this might be very confusing- if you haven't studied Mustalah al- Hadeeth (Sciences of hadeeth). I struggle to understand many things scholars mention on this topic of `Ilal- and I just stick to blind following the 'better' scholars most of the times... an example of me blind following (which comes to my mind at the moment).

The hadeeth narrated by Abu Daawood and others on the authority of Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allaah :saw2: (and I paraphrase); the praying person should not not prostrate like the camel but rather place his hands before his knees. (Refers to the person going to sajdah from the standing position)

The hadeeth was authenticated by Al-Albaanee, al-Suyuti, Ahmad Shaakir and others.

The hadeeth was weakened by some of the giants of hadeeth, from them is al-Bukhaari, al-Tirmidhi, al-Daaraqutni and others

There are two defects with this hadeeth, one with the narrator commonly known as "Al-Nafs al-Zakiyyah" (nice title to be given) and the other narrator is Al-Darawardi.

Al-Darawardi is an accepted narrator generally- but al Bukhaari, Imaam Ahmad and others weaken him when he narrates from his shaykh (in this case is "Al-Nafs al-Zakiyyah") and they mentioned that he makes mistakes when he narrates singularly from his shaykh.

I don't personally know why he makes mistakes as that takes extreme reading into people's biographies- but in this case I blindly follow the verdicts of al-Bukhaari, al-Tirmidhi and others. Solely because of the fact that I do not possess any knowledge in this matter and thus I feel I should blind follow the verdict of those who are more knowledgeable than other scholars. Although, Shaykh al- Albaanee (rahimahullaah) authenticates this hadeeth, I personally feel more comfortable with the verdict of al-Bukhaari and the likes of him because they excelled far more in the knowledge of hadeeth and Allaah knows best. And I dare not say that Shaykh al- Albaanee was wrong in his verdict either, as I am blind following myself- and that gives me no right to criticize a Mujtahid!

I don't have any reference at the moment and that is what I briefly remember about that hadeeth... although Shaykh `Abdullaah al Fawzaan mentioned far more things related to that hadeeth and the fiqh of the hadeeth.

:salam2:

since guessing leads to shaadh...which leads to bi'dah..which leads to zina...and we all know where zina leads..:(

wa `alaykum salaam

I don't think you are using the above terminologies in the correct context... as Zinaa means 'fornication'


------

P.S Both you sisters should try and study Mustalah al-Hadeeth... you will really enjoy it.

BaarakAllaahu feekumaa
Wassalaamu `alaykum
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
What about it? It seems straight forward to me.
Did to me too, but no more after I read the explanation Here. I think I'll see to it some other time.


Both the hadeeth are not the same. One hadeeth is from Waa'il ibn Hujr (the Sahaabi) and the other hadeeth is from the Sahaabi- `Abdullaah ibn al-Zubayr. . .

Yeah in my post to Jen I corrected that bit. Just wanted to know which was shaadh.

I read that Imaam Malik held this view and Imaam hanbal when asked, said it has to be moved "vigorously".Also hadeeth in which the prophet :saw: said "it is more powerful against the devil than iron". And that the companions used to remind each other of it. Plus, ibn Umer's narration: no one will forget when he does this i.e moves his finger.

So I don't know what to take as "most correct opinion" anymore.

Apologies- I was referring to everyone who reads the thread/ post.

Right, In that case I'm sorry.
`Illah or `Ilal (plural) generally refers to a hidden defect in the isnaad (chain) or the Matn (text) of a narration.. . ..

That was interesting. What I find interesting is how at one time one Scholar is a complete master of something, and at others he's in contradiction Super Masters!

I guess I don't really have to rely on Sheikh Albaani's book only. It's a good book, but I like variety of opinions. Though the variety usually confuses me to be honest.

[Sister Suhaanah will surely love it. I think she's going to be away for a while.]


P.S Both you sisters should try and study Mustalah al-Hadeeth... you will really enjoy it.

I want to, but I'm not sure where to begin.

BaarakAllaahu feekumaa

Wassalaamu `alaykum

You forgot to provide a new word akh!

Wasalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
I don't think you are using the above terminologies in the correct context... as Zinaa means 'fornication'

:salam2: Brother, I probably don't. I'm still learning some of the Arabic words and their context...the English translation <would that be Tafsir?> would be:

Jen: "since guessing leads to shaadh...which leads to bi'dah..which leads to zina...and we all know where zina leads..:frown:"

Translation: "Since assuming (about definitions) leads to mistakes...which leads to innovations (false practices)...which leads to sinning....which leads to (eternal damnation in Hell)"

Do I have the definitions/context/relationships (Taweel?) correct?



------

P.S Both you sisters should try and study Mustalah al-Hadeeth... you will really enjoy it.

BaarakAllaahu feekumaa
Wassalaamu `alaykum[/quote]
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
I read that Imaam Malik held this view and Imaam hanbal when asked, said it has to be moved "vigorously".Also hadeeth in which the prophet :saw: said "it is more powerful against the devil than iron". And that the companions used to remind each other of it. Plus, ibn Umer's narration: no one will forget when he does this i.e moves his finger.

Can you provide reference for what Imaam Maalik said?

As for Imaam Ahmad- then the question that was asked to him was about Ishaarah (pointing) of the finger and not Tahreek (moving) of the finger [As far as I remember]. And he replied that Ishaarah should be done vigorously- and thus scholars mention that this means one should have his finger pointed throughout the entire Tashahhud.

Another reason why that would not be the opinion of Imaam Ahmad was because the hanaabilah did not establish this opinion in their books.

Even the narration about it being powerful against the devil is referring to Ishaarah.

I do not know about Ibn `Umar's narration- will appreciate if you can give reference and the narration.

So I don't know what to take as "most correct opinion" anymore.

To be honest... since we all are general people and not at the level of Ijtihaad- at one point we will have to do taqleed. There is nothing wrong if you find Sh. al- Albaanee's opinion as stronger and do taqleed of it... as you are blind following a reliable scholar.

That was interesting. What I find interesting is how at one time one Scholar is a complete master of something, and at others he's in contradiction Super Masters!

Just like how you have ikhtilaaf in Fiqh, you have lot of that in Hadeeth too.

I guess I don't really have to rely on Sheikh Albaani's book only. It's a good book, but I like variety of opinions. Though the variety usually confuses me to be honest.

[Sister Suhaanah will surely love it. I think she's going to be away for a while.]

It is not really advised for the begineers to go into variety of opinions- especially if you are aiming to seek knowledge in an academic manner.

If you can find a qualified teacher and start studying with him/her- this would be excellent. If not, try study arabic by yourself and start listening to the scholars... once your arabic is at a good level.

The latter has been done by many in the west- all it requires is: sincerity and you should be hard-working.

I want to, but I'm not sure where to begin.

If you cannot study it with a teacher- then you can try read up on some books in english. I think Bilaal Philips has a very good one. Do remember that these kind of books require you to read them quite a few times- in addition to listening to lectures on this particular topic.

You forgot to provide a new word akh!

Sorry- not very familiar with the rules.

My question: What is a Mutawaatir hadeeth. Define it, and give examples.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
My question: What is a Mutawaatir hadeeth. Define it, and give examples.

:salam2:

Sister Seeking, I think Brother Thariq is going easy on us. This one is easy to understand...

I cheated a bit and went to Islamqa so I'll cut and paste sections and then explain in my own words how I understand it..I find that the fatwah's posted there are not just "laws" but a wonderful source of basic education and a valuable resource to gain access to relevant hadiths and ayats..and it's broken up into small chucks so I don't feel overwhelmed.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/34651

Mutawaatir is an Arabic word that is derived from the word tawaatur, which means succession, one after the other. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):​


“Then We sent Our Messengers in succession”


[al-Mu’minoon 23:44]


What this means in sharee’ah terminology is a report which was narrated by a group who could not possibly have agreed upon a lie, from a similar group, and which is based on what they saw or heard.


A modern example of this would be the falling of the twin towers on 9/11. Everyone saw the towers fall. There is no way for people to lie about which building fell first because too many people witnessed it or saw the events happen on the news. (I'm not debating the why's of the planes hitting the towers, just that tab "A" went into slot 'A" and tab "B" went into slot "B").


An example of a Hadith would be:


“Whoever tells a lie against me deliberately, let him take his place in Hell.”


Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 107; Muslim, 3; Abu Dawood, 3651; al-Tirmidhi, 2661; Ibn Maajah, 30, 37; and Ahmad, 2/159.


This hadeeth was narrated by more than seventy-two Sahaabah, and was narrated from them by a huge number of narrators whom it is impossible to list.

There ARE conditions set into place for a hadith to be ruled Mutawaatir and they are as follows:

1 – It should have been narrated by a large number
2 – The number should be so large that it is impossible that they could have agreed upon a lie.
3 – There should be a large number of narrators at every stage of the chain of narration (isnaad), so it should have been narrated by a large number from a large number, all the way back to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
4 – It should be based on what they saw or heard, so they should say, “We heard” or “We saw”, because if it is not like that it is possible for error to creep in, so it is not mutawaatir.


Now, there are two types of Mutawaatir and they are the wording and the meaning. The Hadith posted above is an example of the wording. Everyone agrees that the specific words were said in that order. So many people heard/witnessed it that it can not be disputed.



A Mutawaatir in the meaning is when there is the same meaning but the wording is a bit different. Just as we have synonyms in English (words that are different but mean the same thing) so too with ahadeeth.



For example: the ahaadeeth about raising the hands when making du’aa’. Nearly one hundred ahaadeeth are narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in each of which it says that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) raised his hands when making du’aa’. Al-Suyooti compiled them in a chapter which he entitled Fadd al-Wi’aa’ fi Ahaadeeth Raf’ al-Yadayn fi’l-Du’aa’.

Hmmmmmmmm......a word...a word....

My word is "Saheeh".
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

Maa shaa'Allaah excellent compilation by Sh. Haitham Hamdan. Learnt a lot- Jazaahullaahu khairaa.

That has been my favourite forum for time now, although I have never posted there.


:salam2:

I've run into that forum before but since I wasn't sure if it was correct knowledge or not, I've not looked at it too deeply. Now that I know that its accurate...:)
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
:salam2:

I've run into that forum before but since I wasn't sure if it was correct knowledge or not, I've not looked at it too deeply. Now that I know that its accurate...:)

Wa alaykum~

Jen you so have me in trouble now! You absolutely super fast Posting abilities had me thinking there was no new post in this thread.

I took a look at the last post of this thread from the "forums" page yesterday it said : JenGiOV, Today in the morning, JenGiOV, Later at 2:00 JenGiOV. Just about 5 mins ago and again! JenGiOV. It's good I noticed the "time" of the last post has changed and BHAM! I've got to read it quite a lot now to catch up with you People! *Smile* pretty fast Mashaa'Allaah.
 

JenGiove

Junior Member
Wa alaykum~

Jen you so have me in trouble now! You absolutely super fast Posting abilities had me thinking there was no new post in this thread.

I took a look at the last post of this thread from the "forums" page yesterday it said : JenGiOV, Today in the morning, JenGiOV, Later at 2:00 JenGiOV. Just about 5 mins ago and again! JenGiOV. It's good I noticed the "time" of the last post has changed and BHAM! I've got to read it quite a lot now to catch up with you People! *Smile* pretty fast Mashaa'Allaah.


ROTDFL! JengiovE...you forgot the "E"...lol! As for my fast posting...is it MY fault I have no life and so spend too much time online? :)...Ironicly, that same amount of time spent online have given me medical problems in my lower back...hips turn backwards, tailbone twisted to the right, compression of the disks...oh well...such is life.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

Can you provide reference for what Imaam Maalik said?
It says on page 65 under the heading of moving the finger in tashahud.

"when he raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it [9]", and he used to say," It is surely more powerful against the devil than iron meaning the forefinger." (you've explained that Alhumdulillah).

Now in the foot notes it says:
[9] ibid. About "supplicating with it", Imaam Tahaawi said, "This the evidence that it was at the end of the prayers." Hence there is evidence in this that the Sunnah is to continue pointing and moving the finger until the tasleem, for the supplication is until then. This is the view of Maalik and other.

As for Imaam Ahmad- then the question that was asked to him was about Ishaarah (pointing) of the finger and not Tahreek (moving) of the finger [As far as I remember]. And he replied that Ishaarah should be done vigorously- and thus scholars mention that this means one should have his finger pointed throughout the entire Tashahhud.

I'll quote the book again. Same reference as above. Infact the above paragraph continues as:
Imaam Ahmad was asked,"Should a man point with his finger during prayers?" He said ,"Yes vigorously." (Mentioned by Ibn haani in his Masaa'il of Imaam Ahmad,1/80). From this is it clear the moving the finger in tashahhud is a proven sunnah of the prophet:saw:, and it was practiced by Ahmad and other imaams if the sunnah.

Another reason why that would not be the opinion of Imaam Ahmad was because the hanaabilah did not establish this opinion in their books.
I can see what you are saying akh, but the last two sentences he added after quoting Imaam Ahmad made me type what I typed. I was in a hurry so I didn't quiet typed everything.

He actually adds a bit of defensive words after that:

Therefore, those who think it is pointless and irrelevant and has nothing to do with the prayer, should fear Allaah, since because of this, they do not move their fingers although they know it to be established sunnah; and they take great pains to interpret it in a way which is inconsistent with 'Arabic way of expression and contrary to the understanding of the imaams with regards to it

. . .(a bit of bashing of scolding for those who defend the imaam when they want and leave them as they desire, then). . .

Further the hadeeth thay he would not move his finger does not have an authentic isnaad, as I have explained in Da'eef Abi Daawood (175). Even if it were authentic it is negatory, while the above hadeeth is affirmatory: the affirmatory takes precedence over the negatory , as is well known amongst the scholars.

Even the narration about it being powerful against the devil is referring to Ishaarah.

yes, I think I misunderstood that one before.

I do not know about Ibn `Umar's narration- will appreciate if you can give reference and the narration.

It's about Pointing too I think, even though it's under the "moving the finger in tashahhud" heading.

Page 65 foot note for the 6th hadith ( which is:. . .point with finger adjacent to the thumb towards the qiblah, and fix his sight on it (i.e the finger)[6])

Foot note for [6]:

Muslim, Abu 'Awaanah and Ibn khuzaimah. Humaidi(13/1) and Abu Ya'laa(275/2) added with the saheeh sanad on the authority of Ibn 'Umer:"and this is the shooting of the devil; no-one will forget when he does this", and Humaidi raised his finger. Humaidi also said that Muslim bin Abi Maryam said," A man related to me that in a church in syria, he saw images of the Prophets depicted like this," and Humaidi raise his finger. This is an extremely strange remark, but it's sanad up to "the man" is saheeh.

^That one is interesting and Strange as the Sheikh said.


To be honest... since we all are general people and not at the level of Ijtihaad- at one point we will have to do taqleed. There is nothing wrong if you find Sh. al- Albaanee's opinion as stronger and do taqleed of it... as you are blind following a reliable scholar.

Inshaa'Allaah. I'm actullay bit more than just concious of bid'aahs now that I came to know that my ancestral practices and ideology has many of them. So I just want to do my best to make sure I'm not moving on a path 180 degree opposite of that of the Sunnah.



Just like how you have ikhtilaaf in Fiqh, you have lot of that in Hadeeth too.

Fiqhi stuff is usually confusing, I like this better. It "is" confusing at times but interesting all the same.

It is not really advised for the begineers to go into variety of opinions- especially if you are aiming to seek knowledge in an academic manner.

Jazaakallah khair for your advice, I'll try working on bottling my curiosity for a while.

If you can find a qualified teacher and start studying with him/her- this would be excellent. If not, try study arabic by yourself and start listening to the scholars... once your arabic is at a good level.

The latter has been done by many in the west- all it requires is: sincerity and you should be hard-working.

Finding a teacher is a bit impossible at the moment. I'm trying to get some things myself and try to understand by asking questions online. Not really appreciated by many, but its hard to resist when I've got a question bugging me.

I can be sincere and hardworker but without a teacher I'm not consistent (one big problem!), and most definitely not organized (Another BIG problem). I started this thread to learn "something" and Alhumdulillah it's working a bit. As for Arabic, I'm just going through understanding Quraan a little first (Nouman Ali Khan's tafseer). I hope I can continue. . . Because I'm distracted pretty easily.

If you cannot study it with a teacher- then you can try read up on some books in english. I think Bilaal Philips has a very good one. Do remember that these kind of books require you to read them quite a few times- in addition to listening to lectures on this particular topic.
I love Sheikh Bilaal Philips for the sake of Allaah. He's excellent Mashaa'Allaah. if you can direct me to some Good books (names) and lectures (links) It'll be great.


Sorry- not very familiar with the rules.

I made a list in post 49, add them to the first post after you read them yourself Inshaa'Allaah.

Jazaakallah khair.

P.S. I typed the whole thing from the book, forgive me for the "typos", if there are any.
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .


JazakaakAllaaha Khair Ukht! I sure am going to read that one. They've got some real interesing discussion down there. But are we allowed to paste other forums' links? I thought BII once said it's not allowed.

If someone is to remove that link, make sure you paste the info here first!

ROTDFL! JengiovE...you forgot the "E"...lol! As for my fast posting...is it MY fault I have no life and so spend too much time online? :)...Ironicly, that same amount of time spent online have given me medical problems in my lower back...hips turn backwards, tailbone twisted to the right, compression of the disks...oh well...such is life.

A big Ooops! on my part, sorry!

May Allaah cure you sister, Backaches can be sucha problem.

:salam2:

Sister Seeking, I think Brother Thariq is going easy on us. This one is easy to understand...

I cheated a bit and went to Islamqa so I'll cut and paste sections and then explain in my own words how I understand it

*Smile* you are right about that.
No, It's okay, you can cut past or type from any avaible source off and online Inshaa'Allaah.

btw Great job on mataawatir*Smile*
 

Seeking Allah's Mercy

Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!
My word is "Saheeh".

Sahih

Ṣaḥīḥ, (صَحِيْح), is best translated as authentic. Ibn Hajar defines a hadith that is ṣaḥīḥ lithatihi, ṣaḥīḥ in and of itself, as a singular narration (ahaad – see below) conveyed by a trustworthy, completely competent person, either in his ability to memorize or to preserve what he wrote, with a muttaṣil (connected) isnād (chain of narration) that contains neither a serious concealed flaw (ʻillah) nor irregularity (shādhdh).

He then defines a hadith that is ṣaḥīḥ ligharihi, ṣaḥīḥ due to external factors, as a hadith "with something, such as numerous chains of narration, strengthening it."[5]

This definition of Ibn Hajar illustrates that there are five conditions to be met for a particular hadith to be considered ṣaḥīḥ

1) each narrator in the chain of narration must be trustworthy.

2) each narrator must be reliable in his ability to preserve that narration – be it in his ability to memorize to the extent that he can recall it as he heard it, or, that he has written it as he heard it, and has preserved that written document unchanged.

3) The isnād must be connected, muttasil, in that each narrator could have at least conceivably heard from the previous narrator.

4)The hadith, including its isnād be free of an 'illah or hidden, but detrimental, flaw – such as it being established that two narrators, while having been contemporaries, never, in fact, met thus causing a break in that 'chain'.

5) That hadith be free of irregularity, meaning that it not contradict another hadith better established than it.

Footnotes:
[5]^ Nuzhah al-Nuthr, published with Al-Nukat by 'Ali ibn Hasan, pg. 82, Dar ibn al-Jawzi, al-Damam, 6th edition.

Source:wiki

Al-Shafi`i states the following requirement in order for a hadith which is not Mutawatir to be acceptable:

"Each reporter should be trustworthy in his religion; he should be known to be truthful in his narrating, to understand what he narrates, to know how a different expression can alter the meaning, and report the wording of the hadith verbatim, not only its meaning. This is because if he does not know how a different expression can change the whole meaning, he will not know if he has changed what is lawful into what is prohibited. Hence, if he reports the hadith according to its wording, no change of meaning will be found at all. Moreover, he should be a good memoriser if he happens to report from his memory, or a good preserver of his writings if he happens to report from them. He should agree with the narrations of the huffaz (leading authorities in hadith), if he reports something which they do also. He should not be a Mudallis, who narrates from someone he met something he did not hear, nor should he report from the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) contrary to what reliable sources have reported from him.

In addition, the one who is above him (in the isnad) should be of the same quality, [and so on,] until the hadith goes back uninterrupted to the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) or any authority below him."
66


Ibn al-Salah, however, defines a Sahih hadith more precisely by saying:

"A Sahih hadith is the one which has a continuous isnad, made up of reporters of trustworthy memory from similar authorities, and which is found to be free from any irregularities (i.e. in the text) or defects (i.e. in the isnad)."

By the above definition, no room is left for any weak hadith, whether, for example, it is Munqati`, Mu`dal, Mudtarib, Maqlub, Shadhdh, Munkar, Ma`lul, or contains a Mudallis. The definition also excludes Hasan ahadith, as will be discussed under that heading.

Of all the collectors of hadith, al-Bukhari and Muslim were greatly admired because of their tireless attempts to collect Sahih ahadith only. It is generally understood that the more trustworthy and of good memory the reporters, the more authentic the hadith. The isnad: Al-Shafi`i --- Malik --- Nafi` --- `Abdullah b. `Umar --- The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), is called a "golden isnad" because of its renowned reporters.67

Some traditionists prefer Sahih al-Bukhari to Sahih Muslim because al-Bukhari always looked for those reporters who had either accompanied or met each other, even if only once in their lifetime. On the other hand, Muslim would accept a reporter who is simply found to be contemporary to his immediate authority in reporting.68

The following grading is given for Sahih ahadith only:

1) those which are transmitted by both al-Bukhari and Muslim;

2) those which are transmitted by al-Bukhari only;

3) those which are transmitted by Muslim only;

4) those which are not found in the above two collections, but which agree

with the requirements of both al-Bukhari and Muslim;

5) which agree with the requirements of al-Bukhari only;

6) which agree with the requirements of Muslim only; and

7) those declared Sahih by other traditionists.69

Footnotes:
[65]al-Dhahabi, p. 27.

[66]al-Shafi'i, p. 370f (Eng. trans., pp. 239- 240).

[67]al-Dhahabi, p. 24.

[68]al-Nawawi, Muqaddimah, p. 14.
Source

Next word: Moa'lal. Give detailed info if you can, I need to understand this one Inshaa'Allaah.
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Asalamoalaikom wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuhu. . .

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

It says on page 65 under the heading of moving the finger in tashahud.

"when he raised his finger, he would move it, supplicating with it [9]", and he used to say," It is surely more powerful against the devil than iron meaning the forefinger." (you've explained that Alhumdulillah).

Now in the foot notes it says:
[9] ibid. About "supplicating with it", Imaam Tahaawi said, "This the evidence that it was at the end of the prayers." Hence there is evidence in this that the Sunnah is to continue pointing and moving the finger until the tasleem, for the supplication is until then. This is the view of Maalik and other.

I only understand (from the above) that it was the opinion of Imaam Maalik that one should supplicate while pointing his finger in Tashahhud. Again, if Imaam Maalik held the opinion that it is sunnah to move the finger- it would have been explicitly narrated from him, rahimahullaah.

I'll quote the book again. Same reference as above. Infact the above paragraph continues as:
Imaam Ahmad was asked,"Should a man point with his finger during prayers?" He said ,"Yes vigorously." (Mentioned by Ibn haani in his Masaa'il of Imaam Ahmad,1/80). From this is it clear the moving the finger in tashahhud is a proven sunnah of the prophet:saw:, and it was practiced by Ahmad and other imaams if the sunnah.



I can see what you are saying akh, but the last two sentences he added after quoting Imaam Ahmad made me type what I typed. I was in a hurry so I didn't quiet typed everything.

No problem. But as I mentioned earlier- the question that was asked to Imaam Ahmad was regarding "Ishaarah" (Pointing) and not "Tahreek" (Moving)

He actually adds a bit of defensive words after that:

Therefore, those who think it is pointless and irrelevant and has nothing to do with the prayer, should fear Allaah, since because of this, they do not move their fingers although they know it to be established sunnah; and they take great pains to interpret it in a way which is inconsistent with 'Arabic way of expression and contrary to the understanding of the imaams with regards to it

. . .(a bit of bashing of scolding for those who defend the imaam when they want and leave them as they desire, then). . .

Further the hadeeth thay he would not move his finger does not have an authentic isnaad, as I have explained in Da'eef Abi Daawood (175). Even if it were authentic it is negatory, while the above hadeeth is affirmatory: the affirmatory takes precedence over the negatory , as is well known amongst the scholars.

May Allaah increase you in good and beneficial knowledge. BaarakAllaahu feek for typing all that up- I think there are many pdfs of his book available... you could have asked me to look it up in one of them. Would make my lazy self do something useful.

Shaykh al Albaanee rahimahullaah is a scholar and mujtahid- and he will most definately defend his position and has all the right to do so. He, indeed, was from those who was very very passionate about following the sunnah- Rahimahullaah.

As mentioned before- even if the hadeeth was proven to be authentic... then the salaf would have acted upon such a narration. As mentioned before none of the books of Fiqh from the Salaf had a even a chapter on 'moving the finger in tashahhud'

Again, Sh. Albaanee is a mujtahid and a scholar and this is a matter of ijtihaad anyway- so inshaa'Allaah one can follow his ruling if he feels it is correct.

Page 65 foot note for the 6th hadith ( which is:. . .point with finger adjacent to the thumb towards the qiblah, and fix his sight on it (i.e the finger)[6])

The fixing of the sight on the finger was weakened by scholars too- yup another issue. Don't worry about it... just mentioning as a point of benefit- as you like to know the variety of opinions.

Inshaa'Allaah. I'm actullay bit more than just concious of bid'aahs now that I came to know that my ancestral practices and ideology has many of them. So I just want to do my best to make sure I'm not moving on a path 180 degree opposite of that of the Sunnah.

Yes- but make sure that you don't fall into the traps of many people... that what they do is only correct- I mean in small fiqhi matters (not `Aqeedah): For ex... moving the finger, placing hands on the chest, going hands down or knees down etc... Many of these issues were greatly disputed by the Fuqahaa']

Fiqhi stuff is usually confusing, I like this better. It "is" confusing at times but interesting all the same.

It might be a good idea to study Usool al-Fiqh too... so that one has a foundation to stand on- in terms of fiqhi rulings. And when one studies Usool al-Fiqh, then one begins to appreciate the scholarly differences of opinion (where Ijtihaad is permissible).

I can be sincere and hardworker but without a teacher I'm not consistent (one big problem!), and most definitely not organized (Another BIG problem). I started this thread to learn "something" and Alhumdulillah it's working a bit. As for Arabic, I'm just going through understanding Quraan a little first (Nouman Ali Khan's tafseer). I hope I can continue. . . Because I'm distracted pretty easily.

I would really really advise and encourage you and every other aspiring student of knowledge to study arabic. For this is the key to knowledge and without it- one cannot even study fiqh properly or any thing else from the knowledge of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and its sciences. If one was to seriously put their head down- they can go to a decent level of arabic in no time. Trust me- I really cannot stress the importance of this mighty language.

I love Sheikh Bilaal Philips for the sake of Allaah. He's excellent Mashaa'Allaah. if you can direct me to some Good books (names) and lectures (links) It'll be great.

To be honest- I have actually never read any of his books. I just briefly skim read through the chapters of his Usool al-Hadeeth book months back (and it looked pretty easy to understand) and another tafseer book- in my local masjid. Many people have told me that his books are excellent- maa shaa'Allaah. Although the little bits I have read from his works... are excellent- as he has a very nice way of writing maa shaa'Allaah

I made a list in post 49, add them to the first post after you read them yourself Inshaa'Allaah.

Jazaakallah khair.

P.S. I typed the whole thing from the book, forgive me for the "typos", if there are any.

BaarakAllaahu feek for the link. May Allaah raise your ranks in the hereafter and make you from those who seek beneficial knowledge and act upon it. May Allaah reward you for typing all that up for me.

Wassalaamu `alaykum
 
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