Salam Alaikum wa Rahmatu' Allah,
My wife was born into a Christianity. Although she had gone to a Christian school all her life, she has trouble accepting "Organized religions" (as she calls them) including Islam. We have had discussions before which concluded her belief in One God. I feel this is a good start as it's a lot closer to Islam than Christianity. However, every time we discuss religion, she asks me questions that I can't answer with my limited knowledge.
I humbly come to you in this community seeking your help and knowledge.
I have currently started reading the book "What did Jesus Really Say" by Mish'al Ibn Abdallah. I am finding the book extremely interesting as it goes on tackling the verses in the bible one by one. I am hoping through this thread to be able to ask her questions and learn from those with greator knowledge than me.
Our latest discussion, she has asked me about the crucifiction and the details of what happened. Now we all know in our Qur'an what happened. As a muslim believing in Allah's word, I accept it and go on with my life. However, the issue becomes pretty complex when my wife starts asking questions wanting me to prove that Jesus (PBU) did not actually die on the cross and that Allah has risen him to Him before the Jews go to him.
I have run into the debate between Ahmad Deedat and Josh McDowell and read the entire debate.
To be honest it was a bit complex for me to understand since I had no prior background in the bible and what Jesus actually said or not said. I was also hoping to draw from it some (black and white) proof, but I could not. They both presented their ideas in a very convincing way (meaning if you were a muslim, Ahamd Deedat made sense, but if you were Christian, McDowell presented verses from the bible demonstrating what Jesus's words supported his death on the cross). Other words, I could not find a definite win that I could take to my wife and say "Here's the proof.... Look."
From a muslim prespective, it's easy to discredit McDowell's argument since he's relying on a bible that has been modified and changed that there's no telling what Jesus has said. But, from a Christian prepective it's very hard to believe in Deedat's claims because the Bible claimed some verses that Jesus said that would support his death in the cross.
In the debate Deedat quoted verses from the bible that support his claim and kept saying "read your gosple." He made sense. But, McDowell comes back with other verses that Jesus said that support his death. For example:
Mr. Deedat says "I can have this case dismissed TWICE in two minutes in any court of law in any civilized country. I said twice because one of the testators in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 14, verse 50, tells us that at the most critical juncture in the life of Jesus, all His disciples forsook Him, and fled. ALL. If they were not there, the testimony of those who were not there to witness what happened will be thrown out of court."
Then McDowell comes back saying " The people who say that will often appeal to Mark 14:50. They say that within two minutes they could dismiss the argument because Jesus' followers all left Him and fled. So therefore, everything was hearsay. Men and women. this line of reasoning ignores common sense in the facts of the case. For example, read just the next four verses. It says this: "And Peter followed Him." You see, they left Him in a group, but they came back individually - immediately, Mr. Deedat.
Verse 4 says: "And Peter followed Him at a distance." He went right into the courtyard of the high priest. And he was sitting there with the officer. Can you imagine? With the officers, and warming himself. In Mark 14, it says, "And Peter was below, in the courtyard." Men and women, if you have studied the Scriptures, you'll realize that Mark, in his gospel, was writing down all the eyewitness accounts of Peter. Peter was right there. Then we go to John 18, verse 15: "And Simon Peter was following Jesus, and so was another disciple. Now that disciple was known to the high priest and entered with Jesus into the court of the high priest." John 19:26, "When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, 'Woman, behold your son.' " They were eyewitnesses. They were there. "
So.. It seems like McDowell was coming back with proof from the bible which one can have a hard time disputing with a Christian believer. This becomes especially hard when McDowell comes back with Jesus saying verses like the following:
" " The first fact I found is that Jesus was not afraid to die. In fact, He predicted His own death and resurrection. He said, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem." He said to His disciples, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered up to the death. And they will deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to whip and to crucify Him. And on the third day He will be raised up" (paraphrased from Matthew 17:22-23).
In another place He began to teach them that He had discovered many things. And then He said He'd be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, He would be killed, and He added that after three days, He was to rise again (Matthew 20:18, 19).
In Matthew 17, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and He will be raised again on the third day." "
"Jesus said in John 10: "The Father loves Me because I lay down My life that I may take it up again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative." "
"The third fact that I learned is that the Jews were not guilty of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. I was very surprised. Mr. Deedat, that you needed to be the defender of the Jews. There are Muslims and Christians that have gotten that distorted all through history. Jesus said in Matthew 20. verses 18 and 19, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and they will condemn Me to death. and will deliver Me over to the Gentiles, to mock and whip and crucify Me." Jesus said, "I lay down My life." If anyone was guilty, Jesus was. He said, "I have the power to lay it down, I have the power to take it up.""
It seems to me that Deedat was conveying that Jesus was indeed on the cross but he survived and didn't die?? Did I missunderstand something??
Also, the question becomes, how could one argue with a Christian; these verses by Jesus?? Are they written in Red Ink in the bible??
See how hard this is for me?? How can I logically prove or disprove the details of the crucifiction to my wife?? What happened to the man that was actually crucified?? Where did he disappear??
Any help is truely appreciated .. Jazakum Allah khairan.. Wa al salam alaikum.
My wife was born into a Christianity. Although she had gone to a Christian school all her life, she has trouble accepting "Organized religions" (as she calls them) including Islam. We have had discussions before which concluded her belief in One God. I feel this is a good start as it's a lot closer to Islam than Christianity. However, every time we discuss religion, she asks me questions that I can't answer with my limited knowledge.
I humbly come to you in this community seeking your help and knowledge.
I have currently started reading the book "What did Jesus Really Say" by Mish'al Ibn Abdallah. I am finding the book extremely interesting as it goes on tackling the verses in the bible one by one. I am hoping through this thread to be able to ask her questions and learn from those with greator knowledge than me.
Our latest discussion, she has asked me about the crucifiction and the details of what happened. Now we all know in our Qur'an what happened. As a muslim believing in Allah's word, I accept it and go on with my life. However, the issue becomes pretty complex when my wife starts asking questions wanting me to prove that Jesus (PBU) did not actually die on the cross and that Allah has risen him to Him before the Jews go to him.
I have run into the debate between Ahmad Deedat and Josh McDowell and read the entire debate.
To be honest it was a bit complex for me to understand since I had no prior background in the bible and what Jesus actually said or not said. I was also hoping to draw from it some (black and white) proof, but I could not. They both presented their ideas in a very convincing way (meaning if you were a muslim, Ahamd Deedat made sense, but if you were Christian, McDowell presented verses from the bible demonstrating what Jesus's words supported his death on the cross). Other words, I could not find a definite win that I could take to my wife and say "Here's the proof.... Look."
From a muslim prespective, it's easy to discredit McDowell's argument since he's relying on a bible that has been modified and changed that there's no telling what Jesus has said. But, from a Christian prepective it's very hard to believe in Deedat's claims because the Bible claimed some verses that Jesus said that would support his death in the cross.
In the debate Deedat quoted verses from the bible that support his claim and kept saying "read your gosple." He made sense. But, McDowell comes back with other verses that Jesus said that support his death. For example:
Mr. Deedat says "I can have this case dismissed TWICE in two minutes in any court of law in any civilized country. I said twice because one of the testators in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 14, verse 50, tells us that at the most critical juncture in the life of Jesus, all His disciples forsook Him, and fled. ALL. If they were not there, the testimony of those who were not there to witness what happened will be thrown out of court."
Then McDowell comes back saying " The people who say that will often appeal to Mark 14:50. They say that within two minutes they could dismiss the argument because Jesus' followers all left Him and fled. So therefore, everything was hearsay. Men and women. this line of reasoning ignores common sense in the facts of the case. For example, read just the next four verses. It says this: "And Peter followed Him." You see, they left Him in a group, but they came back individually - immediately, Mr. Deedat.
Verse 4 says: "And Peter followed Him at a distance." He went right into the courtyard of the high priest. And he was sitting there with the officer. Can you imagine? With the officers, and warming himself. In Mark 14, it says, "And Peter was below, in the courtyard." Men and women, if you have studied the Scriptures, you'll realize that Mark, in his gospel, was writing down all the eyewitness accounts of Peter. Peter was right there. Then we go to John 18, verse 15: "And Simon Peter was following Jesus, and so was another disciple. Now that disciple was known to the high priest and entered with Jesus into the court of the high priest." John 19:26, "When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, 'Woman, behold your son.' " They were eyewitnesses. They were there. "
So.. It seems like McDowell was coming back with proof from the bible which one can have a hard time disputing with a Christian believer. This becomes especially hard when McDowell comes back with Jesus saying verses like the following:
" " The first fact I found is that Jesus was not afraid to die. In fact, He predicted His own death and resurrection. He said, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem." He said to His disciples, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered up to the death. And they will deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to whip and to crucify Him. And on the third day He will be raised up" (paraphrased from Matthew 17:22-23).
In another place He began to teach them that He had discovered many things. And then He said He'd be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, He would be killed, and He added that after three days, He was to rise again (Matthew 20:18, 19).
In Matthew 17, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and He will be raised again on the third day." "
"Jesus said in John 10: "The Father loves Me because I lay down My life that I may take it up again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative." "
"The third fact that I learned is that the Jews were not guilty of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. I was very surprised. Mr. Deedat, that you needed to be the defender of the Jews. There are Muslims and Christians that have gotten that distorted all through history. Jesus said in Matthew 20. verses 18 and 19, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and they will condemn Me to death. and will deliver Me over to the Gentiles, to mock and whip and crucify Me." Jesus said, "I lay down My life." If anyone was guilty, Jesus was. He said, "I have the power to lay it down, I have the power to take it up.""
It seems to me that Deedat was conveying that Jesus was indeed on the cross but he survived and didn't die?? Did I missunderstand something??
Also, the question becomes, how could one argue with a Christian; these verses by Jesus?? Are they written in Red Ink in the bible??
See how hard this is for me?? How can I logically prove or disprove the details of the crucifiction to my wife?? What happened to the man that was actually crucified?? Where did he disappear??
Any help is truely appreciated .. Jazakum Allah khairan.. Wa al salam alaikum.
. So, you should better focus yourself on providing your wife proofs of Qur'an authenticity, and there are plenty of them. Because, even if you proof to her that Bible isn't from Allah, then you still don't have the proof for Islam, and that won't make her any more near to Islam. Also, if you have some questions, try contacting this brother: 
