Discussion in 'New and Current Affairs' started by stranger786, Nov 13, 2006.
I kindly advise you to be careful with your sarcastic and unthoughtful questions!
When you ask a question then in a decent manner!
what sort of question is that?!
That is not very nice!
To your literal question, here you can learn who Allaah swt is:
Who Is Allah?
What is a Muslim?
Because a muslim does not know how to present his point you don't have to get naughty!
Please keep your decency as a person if not as a believer!
Please accept my apologies. What I'm trying to say is that noway can G-d break a promise. He never has and never will.That's what I learnt as a christian and I'm sure its the same with Islam. A promise is a promise is a promise
I apologise for bringing up this point again, but it seems I didn't make myself clear in the question I asked you on post #68 on this thread. I will ask the question again, and this time I will colour the phrase that I want to focus on in red:
You said the following on post #54 on this thread:
In post #69 -after quoting my question- you replied as follows:
I will rephrase my question again:
By the phrase "we're all sinful. YESHUA ain't. He is the only person in a position to throw stones", were you alluding to the following verses of the Bible?:
John 8:6-7 [New American Bible]
I would be grateful for your answer.
You should apologise to your Creator, and sincerely seek His guidance if you want to be happy and find the True Path. We believe and worship the One Creator alone, you want to call Him God we call Him Allah: الله Allah is the proper name in Arabic for The One and Only God, The Creator and Sustainer of the universe. It is used by the Arab Christians and Jews for the God (Eloh-im in Hebrew; 'Allaha' in Aramaic, the mother tongue of Jesus, pbuh). The word Allah does not have a plural or gender. Allah does not have any associate or partner, and He does not beget nor was He begotten.
And Allah swt breaks His promise never - though I am not relating this answer to this topic in this thread, because I have not been involved in its discussion.
Just one of many Ayahs (Verses) where Allah makes that clear:
Our Lord! Verily, it is You Who will gather mankind together on the Day about which there is no doubt. Verily, Allâh never breaks His Promise". Chapter: Al-'Imran (3) Verse #: 9
Hi there my good friend. I'm certainly not a scholar nor am I particularly versed with the scriptures. I'll try my best so here goes.
John 8:6-7 To understand the full context I believe its important to read at least from verse 3 right up to verse 10
Vs 3 "The teachers of the law and the Phariseesbrought in a woman caught in adultry...
This sin cannot be committed alone, so the question arises as to why only 1 offender was brought. So obviously this incident was set up to trap YESHUA.
Vs 4 and said to Yeshua " Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law Moses commanded us to stone such women.
being caught in the act . This compromising circumstance was not sufficient evidence as Jewish laws require witnesses
So they altered the law a little. The manner of executioonwas not prescribed unless the woman was a betrothed virgin. further, the law required the execution of both parties, not just the women.
Vs 6-8.The question was used as a trap. The Romans did not allow the Jews to carry out the death sentence. sO IF yeshua had to stone her he could have been in conflict with the Romans.If he told them not to stone her, he could have been accused of not supporting the law.
By writing on the ground is symbolic that the tablets were inscribed in stone by the finger of ELOHIM
without sin . This is quite general and means without any sin and not without this sin. So when he said 'let him be the first' he caught them by surprise. Since he spoke of 'throwing stones', he could not be accused of failure to uphold the law, but the qualification for throwing it prevented anyone from acting. And because they were conscience stricken they walked away B]
Hope that answers the question. Many thanks
Salaam alaykum/Peace to all;
if somebody doesn´t know what is telling in Hamas Charter Article 6, let me help a little:
All the Hamas Charter: http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
This doesn´t sound very bad of my mind... but maybe the reason for this is because I am muslim and understand its meaning.
So is Islam to be imposed even on people who do not want it. The Jews for example. If I am a palestinian christian and want nothing to do Islamic (Sharia) laws then by democratic process, it is my inaleinable right to vote on the matter. I do not need to be forcibly forced into accepting something against my will. But then I have no option do I. Seeing that the christians are a minority.
But of interest, Palestine under an Islamic leadership is far from the Utopia, you make it out to be. It will continue to be until such time ALL the people of that region recognise each other as human beings and who are answerable to their creator. I say it again and I've said it before. There are 2 sides to the coin. With only one side you dont have a coin.
Who the heck is Yeshua?
Jesus peace be upon Him
No rights for Israel
With respect sir not according to the scriptures it isn't. As much as you and I dislike to hear it, Allah enterd into an everlasting covenant with those people. HE does not break covenants. HE never has and never will.
As an ex christian a non Jew and an undecided learner of Islam, it is unfortunately (or fortunately by the will of Allah) something I have to accept. HE is the decider
In case I get labelled a 'zionist supporter or Kffir, let me say this. Whether or you lable me or not , matters not. IT pains me to see that that beautiful land, loaned to us by Allah, being systematically destroyed by unnecessary and unwanton killings being perpetrated on BOTH sides. IT is time for ALL of us, friend or foe, to grow up and behave like civilised human beings. That is the least we can do for our creator.
Ultimately that land belongs to Allah and Allah alone. Who are we to abuse it.
If Islam means submission, then submission it must be. It is time to follow him and not misguided politicians. For truly the day will come when ALL will stand before Him. JEWS, GENTILES, MUSLIMS. No exceptions. He will take us to task for our hatred to one another and judge us accordingly. No doubt about that.
For my part, obsession for ownership of that land is not important.
What's really important is that I follow the will of Allah. Ultimately Allah will take care of the land. But he won't if we don't let him. My priority is Allah and no one else.Not even the mullas or imams,Prime ministers or Presidents If we are to enter the heavens then Allah demands that we respect one another and do to them as we would like them to do unto us. Even if that means embracing our enemy,Allah WILL reward us.
That is the cornerstone of MY faith and committment to Allah. MY needs are not of that land, but of Heaven and if I have to embrace my foe, as hard as it may be, then so be it. For He is oft merciful and oft forgiving, the 99 beautiful names of our creator. Thank you.
Dear BG from GB,
I wont label you anything but your support for israel and seemingly non caring atittude to palestinian suffering has been noted from your comments.
I got two questions.
1) In the above post you declare yourself to be "an ex christian" and an "undecided learner of islam" but if you scroll through all your posts you HAVE SAID that YOU are a christian.
2)From all your posts i notice that you type the word GOD as "G-D" which i KNOW for a fact ONLY JEWS DO. They cannot say the name of HASHEM, or GOD. So can you calirfy why you keep saying you are christian and now you are not??
I know jews are allowed subterfuge when dealing with GOYIM (thats us) but please be honest and clarify.
This thread was started to discuss the palestinian problem and now with your posts we could never get round to disccussing it. Can you please stick to the thread topic and open another thread where we can all talk to you about whatever you want to talk about. Let us all who want to talk about our palestinian brothers and sisters andf their suffering here do it in peace.
Thank you for your understanding.
Salaam alaykum/Peace to all;
I don´t see that Palestinian christians would have any dangers from Palestinian muslims, not even from Hamas. Let me give you some examples; before during elections at 2006 January, on the list of Hamas in Gaza were also even one christian candidate and later there were one christian Palestinian in the government (minister of tourism, if I remember right but he resigned in cause of his health problems last summer). The other example from the West Bank; last year after some unkindly statements of the Pope, head of the catholic church, some vandals attacked against christian churches in the West Bank and in many towns and villages for example members of the Islamic Jihad voluntary guarded the safety of those churches.
But what about destiny of Palestinian christians under the zionist occupation? Zionists don´t make any differencies between muslim Palestinians or christian Palestinians. Do you still remember what happened 5 years ago in Bethlehem, when IOF (Israeli Occupation Forces) sieged the Church of Nativity and three other churches in there? Propably you don´t remember. So, let me remind you a little:
There is no problem that muslims would not understand so simple principle, but I also wait the time when zionists will recognise other people as human beings and are ready to treat others by respected way. Now they listen too much the such leaders like Lieberman for example...
Thank you for your response and your kind explanation of the meanings of the verses in your post #86 on this thread.
I admit that I should have read your posts more carefully, since your mentioned -more explicitly- the verses I referred to [John 8:6-7].
In your post #41 you wrote:
And in your post #47 you wrote:
I apologise for not reading your posts more carefully.
I will now discuss something that apparently has no connection to the Story of the Adulteress [John 7:53-8:11], but you'll see why as you read on.
To begin with, I was surprised by your following statement [in post #50]:
I was glad to read that you believe in "what the Koran says". And yet, you also state that "I believe in what the scriptures say". I assume you're referring to the Bible.
In the Qur'an, God Almighty said that he did indeed reveal Sacred Scriptures, and that the Torah and Gospel were of those Sacred Scriptures revealed to the Messengers Moses and Jesus Christ [peace be upon them] respectively.
For example, read the following translation of the meaning of the Qur'an:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:3-4]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:44]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:46]
So, as a Muslim, I have to believe that there were other Holy Books that were revealed to other Messengers of God.
However, I also have to believe that these previous scriptures did not survive intact and that the scriptures found today have been corrupted by inserted fabrications and deletions. Please read the following translations of the meanings of verses of the Qur'an:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 3:78]
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:79]
These fabrications and deletions can also be proved by the contradiction found between some Biblical verses and some Qur'anic verses.
For example, in the Bible we find the following:
Matthew 27:46 [New American Bible]
In the Qur'an, God Almighty said:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 4:155-158]
So, in the Qur'an God Almighty told us that Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] was not crucified, and therefore if you believe in the Qur'an then you must also believe that the story found in the Bible that speaks of Jesus Christ's [peace be upon him] supposed crucifixion is a fabrication.
There are other examples of a statement in the Bible that contradicts a statement in the Qur'an. I'll just mention two of these examples:
In the Bible, you find the following:
Exodus 20:11 [New American Bible]
God Almighty said:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 50:38]
In the Bible, you find the following:
Exodus 32:19-25 [New American Bible]
Allah the Exalted said:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 7:148-151]
Note: the above is the translation edited by Saheeh International [ISBN 9960792633] I believe the underlined phrase would be better translated as " calf (a mere) body" since it corresponds better to the original Arabic عِجْلاً جَسَداً
And Allah the Almighty said:
[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 20:83-99]
Note: the above is the translation edited by Saheeh International [ISBN 9960792633] I believe the underlined phrase would be better translated as "a calf (a mere) body" since it corresponds better to the original Arabic عِجْلاً جَسَداً
I hope you realise from the above examples that one cannot believe in all of the verses of the Qur'an unless he also believes that the previous scriptures were corrupted, because:
1- Allah the Almighty told us [in the Qur'an] that the previous scriptures were corrupted.
2- There are stories in both the Qur'an and the Bible that contradict each other.
Now, as a Muslim, the above is all the evidence I need for me to believe that the Bible was corrupted.
I will now present further evidence -from Christian sources- that show the Bible was corrupted, for the benefit of non Muslims.
And here we come back once more to the Story of the Adulteress [John 7:53-8:11].
These verses of the Bible that you alluded to are known for a fact to be a fabrication, since they were inserted by someone other than the original author of the Gospel of John.
I will post the Story of the Adulteress as it is shown in the New American Bible [which is a Roman Catholic English version]:
Source of John 7:53: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXF.HTM
Source of John 8:1-11: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXG.HTM
Source of footnote 17: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PXF.HTM
[I have coloured the relevant parts in red and underlined and and highlighted the word "all"]
Now, you could clearly see that the Bible posted on the official Vatican website says that the Story of the Adulteress is absent from all early Greek manuscripts. And the Catholic Church accepting this passage as canonical scripture carries no weight, because they are even more erroneous by worshiping Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] and the Holy Spirit alongside God Almighty, while they should only worship God Almighty and believe in His Oneness, not in a trinity. They should also believe that Muhammad [peace be upon him] was the last Messenger of God Almighty.
What does other English Protestant versions of the Bible have to say about the Story of the Adulteress?:
New International Version
Footnote (a) to John 7:53
The New American Standard Bible
Footnote (a) to to John 7:53, I have coloured the word "may" in red.
The Amplified Bible.
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Footnote (a) to John 7:53
New King James Version
Today's New International Version
To be fair and not to mislead you, there are other English versions that do not mention that John 7:53-8:11 was a later insertion. These versions include the King James Version, the 21st Century King James Version, the American Standard Version and others.
If you want to check out these quotations, go to www.biblegateway.com and enter John 7:53-8:11 on the left field while changing the version on the right field.
You also have the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? that was aired on Christmas Day 2004 in the UK on Channel 4. It was presented by Dr. Robert Beckford [a Christian Theologian].
And you can also check out the Channel 4 website about this documentary:
But who's Dr. Robert Beckford?
According to an article by Liz Ford published in the Guardian newspaper on 17th of May, 2005, Robert Beckford studied religion and sociology at Houghton College in New York, [U.S.A.], received his Masters degree in Hermeneutics at what was then London Bible College, in Middlesex, and is now the London School of Theology and finally received his PhD degree from the University of Birmingham.
I strongly suggest you watch the documentary Who Wrote the Bible? by clicking on the following link. It's 1 hour and 40 minutes long:
And here's where I come to my main point.
When you wrote in post #91 that:
And in post #81 that:
And in post #83 that:
And in post #50:
And in post #35:
From all of your above statements, I can see that you firmly believe that the Jews were promised the Holy Land for eternity in the Biblical scriptures.
You first have to understand that:
1- We Muslims believe [because of the above mentioned verses of the Qur'an] that the Bible was corrupted. Therefore, however many times you mention the scriptures [i.e., the Bible] it just won't change our minds. And if you believe in what the Qur'an [I'm referring to your statement in post #50 "I also believe in what the Koran says."] then you must also conclude that the Bible was corrupted.
2- Even Christians should rethink their belief that the Bible is the Word of God. I have quoted to you what many versions of the Bible say about a certain passage [John 7:53-8:11]. This passage is taken for granted by Christians to be an actual fact, while the Bible versions I mentioned say that it was a forgery inserted into the Bible.
So, the conclusion is that the Bible was corrupted. Therefore, how can you firmly believe that the Holy Land belongs to the Jews? What is the basis of your conviction?
In the end, BGfromGB, I realise that this post might seem very aggressive. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings or anything of the sort. I just feel that you came to this forum to see the candid and honest opinion of Muslims, and the above was certainly my candid and honest opinion
I hope you all the best BGfromGB.
LOOK AT YOURSELF
Well I have heard much about Israel .Let us talk about Arabs .These Arabs are so rich and yet they do not defend themselves. They spend their money on hotels and luxurious things . Look at DUBAI. I think it is an AZAAB from ALLAH that Israel is openly doing everything and yet these Arabs don't even think of strengthening their defence .LOOK AT EXAMPLE OF PAKISTAN.A third world poor country but still has the most powerful Military in the Muslim world.It is the only nuclear power in Islamic world. Ex PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO said
"People of Pakistan will eat leaves and grass will go hungry and will do anything, but will make nuclear bomb "
Israel threatened Pakistan many times but it dared not attack us .It is still the prime supplier of weapons to enemy of PAKISTAN ,INDIA.
ARABS SAY "We will be destroyed, we will be humiliated but we will not stop spending billios of dollars on luxury hotels and parks.
this is not the first time!!!!!!!!!!!
assalamu aleikum, i would kindly advice you to hold you tongue next time and avoid generalising use the word "arabe leaders it is more appropriate!" 1000 and 1000 of your arab brothers have been going for jihad in afghanistan ,chechenya, kashmir,bosnia,iraq from europe from everywhere risking their lives for this ummah and i myself have three uncle who have died as shahid alhamdulilah and do not forget that has it been without the what you call arabs(alhamdulilah) islam would never have reached spain indonesia,north africa,west africa east africa.....etc am myself half arab so avoid to generalise next time because i know some arabs who would teach you and anybody in here their religion without anydoubt! inschallah pray that your arab brothers will get rid of their dictators because they are among the ones who are suffering right now in palestine and iraq!so avoid generalising!
salaam aleikum wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuh,
I have read a few of your post and in everyone i read, you almost worship pakistan. I don't meen to be rude but in this dunya there is not one pure islamic state, where shariah rules. Pakistan isn't one either.
Israel wiping out Palestine
And your proof is? By the way I do not wish to continue with with this discussion. Not because I have nothing to hide. But I was sensured by the moderator of this site. He told me this is a site for Islamic discussion. Not debate. I gave him my undertaking that I would not enter/create debates. So if you have a problem please feel free to raise the matter with him. Thank you
Its humble and polite people like you that make me want to know more about Islam.
Its people like you, and who goes to great lengths to politely and calmly explain what Islam is really about.
You are a credit to your religion.
Unlike some of the posts I receive which are blunt, crude, and in some cases threatening. These posts I just plainly ignore. At one stage I came very close to shutting my computer to this Islamic forum.
Unfortunately I have to go to work now. But I will study your post as soon as I can. May HE bless you. Thank you sir.
I've just sat for twenty minutes and read every post in this topic and it's made for really interesting reading.
As far as I understand there are three sides (is that possible?) to this issue: The palestinian people who want to live on their land self governed and in peace, the Israeli's who believe Israel has been given to them as a gift from God as they are the chosen people and the Zionists who have their own agenda of middle eastern domination.
Every religion believes their's to be the true religion - otherwise why would they follow it? So it's understandable that Jews would want to live on the land which they believe is their biblical right. However, approximately 80% of Jews are Ashkenazi and originate from a tribe in middle Europe and not the Jews of the Middle East at all.
I've watched so many documentaries about Palestine, both pro and anti occupation and my breath has caught in my throat at times at the blatant and agressiive racism which is edured by the Palestinians on a daily basis.
Equality and to live life without threat of violence are basic tenents of human rights but are denied to Palestinians as a matter of course. I think it's important that we remain intact as a collective voice of Islam and do all we can to help our opressed brothers and sisters in Palestine and elsewhere.
Sorry this post is a bit discursive, I just didn't want it to turn into a diatribe ;p
Separate names with a comma.