PLEASE DON'T COME TO THE MOSQUE!!!

[Aisya al-Humaira]

There is a big difference between being patient with someone's baby/toddler and being irritated over children misbehaving that are old enough to know better. There is a time and place for everything and people would do well to raise their children respectfully instead of expecting the world to bend to their desires.

I'll agree with Sister SH.

In the end, it comes to how the parents educate their own children. Because matters of the deen should be taught first and foremost by the parents; not the Ustaaz/Uztaadha, not the imaams.

May Allaah give us the strenghts to bring up wise, educated and strong Ummaah. Ameen.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,


We all want well behaved people at the masjid. My lord the behaviors I have seen from all kinds of people has at times reduced me to tears. I just watch and shake my head.

In the masjid of Allah I have seen intolerance, I have seen rudeness, I have seen people act plain simple stupid. And I think to myself..wake up people this is the masjid of Allah.

The Prophet was so patient. He had to teach us how to behave and we still do not have it right.

Yes, I am aware that children can be rowdy; but it is up to every member of the community to gently guide the children. One of the reasons that the communities in the US have broken down is that members stopped caring. There was a breakdown in communication. The child was no longer in the need to respect every member of the community. The community no-longer looked out for the child. Let us be responsible for our little ones.

All I am saying is it is better to have a hoard of children at the masjid. They are safe and having fun. I would rather have children at the masjid than be with non-believers. The children are our future. They will be the ones who will make dua for us when we die.

All I do now is stand with my head down and my arm pointing to the masala and the kids from 5 to 18 smile and march in when it is time to pray.

Please, let us demonstrate to our flowers how to behave. Of all the blessings I have had in life..children are the best. They add so much joy to everything. After salat the hugs and kisses are so sweet.

 

[msmoorad]

Assalaam walaikum,

I have been raised in the masjids.

What I have noticed is when the mother is not used to going to the masjid she ignores the children. The fathers ignore the child.

Now..that leaves it to the rest of us to educate the child.

But none of you is reading what I have written. First of all a masjid in not a church or a synagogue. A masjid is far more tolerant.

Why are we asking children to imitate the kufr? We are to take our children as many times a day as we can...sabr...

As to the photographs: that is a healthy 100% male..no doubts about his sexuality. When a child is quiet that is when you want to make sure he is ok.

salaams to all

why is it then that when we look at other places-namely the Indo-Pak subcontinent, that children are MUCH better behaved & disciplined?

are they not healthy boys?

why is it that only in the western countries where parents, teachers etc are NOT allowed to spank their children, do the children have hardly any sense of respect either for other elders or the musjid?

im not advocating violence & i do agree with you when u say the parents of these children are not used to attending the musjid- this is one part of the problem

they are made to feel that the musjid is more a social centre & daycare facility for their children than a house of worship.

its FIRST the house of Allah -then its other things

when u say its up to the rest of us to educate the child:
you cant honestly expect us to be kind & sweet all the time to children of 8-10 who are old enough that Rasullullah (SAW) ordered that they be spanked if they dont perform their salaah?

ive seen boys of this age in the US- many of them cant stop fidgeting and giggling- like 6yr olds
this is because they have NOT been taught by their parents. at this age they should be much more serious & attentive in the musjid.

if anyone has to raise their voice & talk harshly to these children- they will complain to their parents who will come running but the same parents are blindly oblivious to their childrens behaviour- they find it cute & sweet instead.



and Allah ta'ala knows best
jazakallah

 

[esperanza]

asalam alaykum

it is interesting to read this debate going back and forth
i live in an islamic country where there are mosques on every corner...but infact few women attend the mosque
in ramadan the women do attend the taraweeh prayers yes,but there are very few children
in my husbands family when the hildren were young the women rarely attended the mosque in ramadan ,unless one sister stayed to watcch.. ijust thought that was the way things were done

that a woman can pray in the mosque if she is able..but itsnot compulsary .and if she has young children its better to be home looking after them and pray at home

but when iattendedthe main london mosque some years ago it was a wonderful feeling to see whole families wiht their children..

so ican really see both sides

but inthe end it comes down to parents and discipline

this year in taraweh prayer my son said there were boys in the mens section almost his age messing about and many younger ones running about..they are obviously not brought up properly

so i think it dpends on the individual..yes its wonderful to introdue children to the mosque

but if a woman has young children it will be diffiult for her to even pray properly in the mosque and could be disturbing for others

 

[ShyHijabi]

:salam2:

I do not think children behaving in the mosque is imitating kuffr, that is...just not logical. Also, I definitely don't think a well behaved boy is something to be concerned about and I don't think it means he will not be a masculine adult. I do feel a lot of parents treat the mosque as a playground/baby sitter and drop their responsibility when they come in.

We need to bring our children to the mosque, that much is certain. How else would the children learn to pray and behave? Like I said, there is a time and place for everything. And the prayer area in the mosque is not the place to re-inact WWF or play tag.

 

[esperanza]

:salam2:

I do not think children behaving in the mosque is imitating kuffr, that is...just not logical. Also, I definitely don't think a well behaved boy is something to be concerned about and I don't think it means he will not be a masculine adult. I do feel a lot of parents treat the mosque as a playground/baby sitter and drop their responsibility when they come in.

We need to bring our children to the mosque, that much is certain. How else would the children learn to pray and behave? Like I said, there is a time and place for everything. And the prayer area in the mosque is not the place to re-inact WWF or play tag.

surely a weoman an teach her young children to pray at home until old enough to attend

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sometimes due to the location of masjids the children do not attend the same schools. Many children are stuck Monday to Friday with the kufr. They see other Muslim children and they play.

If the behavior is bothersome to everyone..step up and do something.
When a child is five they run around; when they are fifteen they move your car; bring you food and some even come and visit.


I guess I am glad we had the Prophet.

I did not the masjid had an age limit to attend. That is a new one. Women bring children of all ages to the masjid. I have the blessing of having little toddlers pray with me.

A community takes responsibility for its members..so start taking responsibility. I love to go to the masjid because I get my hugs and kisses. Do you hug the children..do you take time to tell them to take the energy out of the building...do you take time to talk to the kids...from the responses I gather no

We are not empty churches or synagogues or temples. The energy level is very high in a masjid. The angels of Allah are there, the jinns, the Believers...and children react to that energy...

Anyhow...I would rather take a truckload of screaming little monsters than one sour old adult who is quiet.

 

[esperanza]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sometimes due to the location of masjids the children do not attend the same schools. Many children are stuck Monday to Friday with the kufr. They see other Muslim children and they play.

If the behavior is bothersome to everyone..step up and do something.
When a child is five they run around; when they are fifteen they move your car; bring you food and some even come and visit.


I guess I am glad we had the Prophet.

yes isee your point..it may be the only place for them to see a muslim community,,,espeially in non muslim countries but all education and teaching about faith should start in the home

 

[ShyHijabi]

:salam2:

I don't see why we cannot have both, children in the mosque who know how to behave during prayer? Surely this isn't an extreme expectation? Jummah is only 30-40 minutes long, this would be the prime time to begin instructing proper behavior in the mosque, no?

During tarabeh I once witnessed two women get in a screaming match over some drama. Literally screaming at each other in the entrance of the women's entrance. I NEVER saw something like this until becoming a Muslim. To me this goes back to their upbringing, why were they not taught that this kind of behavior is unacceptable in the masjid?

I don't feel having well behaved children is exclusive to any one group of people. Rather we should be a shining example of how to raise one's children.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sister, I agree.

At one masjid I was appointed the person in charge of misbehavers. I took control.

And that is what is needed. One person take charge and set the example.

I think it is a cultural shyness, many women are afraid to discipline the children of their friends. They do not wish to be seen as the "big bad one". And the brothers seem to be in happy-space.

If this is a continued issue it is time to inform the imam and he can address it to all the congregation.

 

[msmoorad]

Assalaam walaikum,

Sometimes due to the location of masjids the children do not attend the same schools. Many children are stuck Monday to Friday with the kufr. They see other Muslim children and they play.

If the behavior is bothersome to everyone..step up and do something.
When a child is five they run around; when they are fifteen they move your car; bring you food and some even come and visit.


I guess I am glad we had the Prophet.

I did not the masjid had an age limit to attend. That is a new one. Women bring children of all ages to the masjid. I have the blessing of having little toddlers pray with me.

A community takes responsibility for its members..so start taking responsibility. I love to go to the masjid because I get my hugs and kisses. Do you hug the children..do you take time to tell them to take the energy out of the building...do you take time to talk to the kids...from the responses I gather no

We are not empty churches or synagogues or temples. The energy level is very high in a masjid. The angels of Allah are there, the jinns, the Believers...and children react to that energy...

Anyhow...I would rather take a truckload of screaming little monsters than one sour old adult who is quiet.

salaams to all
whose fault is that?

we cant deny that the vast majority of muslim immigrants to the west unfortunately put dunya before deen.

amongst the first generation of immigrants-the women dont work but as the newer generations are born n raised in the west- they also see fit to work in order to afford the lifestyle they see advertised on TV.

i know the cost of living is not cheap- but again, lets be honest- the women work to afford the luxuries- not necessities

yes, some may cite a few examples bu tthose are exceptions.

then comes the issue of men marrying girls who are nor deendaar/pious.
these families also are the ones who place more importance on secular education than deeni/islamic education

i know its harder in the west but there are families who make sacrifices to their dunya just to ensure their children get a good deeni education.
i personally know people in the USa who do this
they move to places where there is an islamic school and even take alower paying job-etc

but the vast majority are not prepared to do this & then we have the above problem as one of the results of their attitude.

and you seem to trivialise the whole issue- as if hugs n kiises from sweet children makes up for violating the sanctity of the musjid n disturbing others.

this is not the only way to make children feel welcome at the musjid- cos they will grow up feeling welcome to behave anyway they wish.
it has to be made clear from the beginnig- and those that cant understand-should not be brought until they reach the age of understanding.

heres more from a scholar:
Categories of Children

There are three categories of children:

(1) The first type are those who are innocent and young. They neither understand the etiquette of the masjid nor do they know anything about prayer. They do not have the understanding that the masjid is a place for worshipping All�h. There is also the danger that they urinate in the masjid [f: this happens more often than one may initially imagine!] or play therein and violate its sanctity. Children of five to six years [f: usually] fall in this category. [f: The legal consideration is not the age itself, but being able to uphold the proper etiquette, such as causing an undue nuisance to those praying. This is what the Hanafi scholars mention, and similar details are mentioned in texts of the Malikis, Hanbalis, & Shafi`is. If the parents are reasonably sure that their child will behave, and are not expected to soil the masjid, then there is great benefit, the scholars tell us, in taking them to the masjid.]

The ruling for such children [f: who are not reasonably expected to behave and will be an undue nuisance to those praying] is that it is not permissible to bring them to the masjid.

It is the responsibility of the parents to see that they do not bring such children to the masjid. If they do so and the children violate the sanctity of All�h's house, the parents will be sinful because the children themselves are innocent. The masjid trustees can also prohibit such children from entering the masjid.

There is a limit for every act in Shari'ah. These limits are what we call D�n and we all have to abide by these limits.

[This is the category of children the Prophet (Allah bless him & give him peace) referred to when he said, �Keep the insane and [small] children away from your masjids.� [Ibn Maja, and others] ]

(2) The second category is those children who are slightly older. They are between seven to eleven years old.

Such children understand the status of a masjid and respect it to a certain degree. However, due to lack of a complete understanding, they do not respect it fully. It is permissible to bring such children to the masjid but it is better not to do so [f: if there is still some fear that they may cause an undue nuisance. This goes back to the parents� upbringing of the child and the child�s nature. The scholars mention that there is very strong benefit in bringing children to the masjid especially in non-Muslim countries, where they do not see a lot of Muslims around them, as this is a strong part of developing their Muslim identity.]

(3) The third category of children is those who are close to maturity. Their ages range from twelve to fourteen. However, a fifteen-year-old child is considered mature even if he does not have any signs of puberty.

The ruling for this category is that they should be brought to the masjid in order to inculcate the habit of prayer with congregation because prayer becomes obligatory on them the moment they reach the age of puberty. It is obligatory on them to attend the masjid for prayer with congregation. If this habit is not inculcated before puberty, it will take time after puberty as a result of which they will forgo their prayers with congregation. Thus it is imperative to bring the youngsters to the masjid while guiding them at home to respect the masjid. They should be taught not to make a noise in the masjid as it is a sanctified place where the name of All�h is taken.


and Allah ta'ala knows best
jazakallah

 

[DanyalSAC]

As to the photographs: that is a healthy 100% male..no doubts about his sexuality. When a child is quiet that is when you want to make sure he is ok.

I'm sorry sister Aapa, I have much respect for you but there's no way you can convince me that this is proper indoor behavior - for a masjid or anywhere else. Particularly when someone is trying to read the Qur'an. The masjid is not a playground - most of them have one outside for this purpose. If a parent is unable - or unwilling - to control or discipline their child they should leave the child at home. In my opinion.

The week I spent in Kuwait the masajid I attended were all blissfully silent - no "lets let our children be happy!" screaming running through during salaat. I was raised in the generation that children should be seen and not heard, and I fully agree with that mentality.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

salaams to all


its one thing to be tolerant, loving & understanding but wha tabout the sanctity of the musjid and disturbing others?

By screaming, disturbing and running around will the children in anyway remove the sanctity of the masjid?

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Masjid in M'sia normally has ample covered space at the back, just enough for the kids to play street soccer. In my place mostly are newly built masjid so they all come with very big space at the far back of the masjid.This space will be utilise for Friday prayers only otherwise it is empty. I'm not sure elsewhere, this kids play at this space but of course the noise will reach the brothers and sisters area. This is what some sisters can't tolerate and they become aggressive towards the kids. My wife said the sisters maybe angry as they can't here the imam talking, but she also said majority of the sisters are not listening either instead they will be chatting at each other. My wife said, seldom she can hear clearly the imam talking because the sisters are having separate mini talking at the back.

There are number of masjid provide space at car park for youth to play street soccer, net ball for women and badminton etc. Masjid in M'sia are being turn into not only a place for worship but also a centre for youth to spend their time for good reason instead of let them loitering without a purpose. I'm hoping soon they will have a section for kids to play or some activities that suitable for them. Look at McD provides a playground which allows parent dining while watching kids playing. Read Prophet's sirah, masjid was built not only for praying but beyond that. It is also a perfect place to raise children from innocent kids to a pious Muslims soldiers.

I agree, parents should educate children the manners in masjid. It is an insult to say no parents are not doing that. I do that, in fact I punish my son at home if he does any disturbances in masjid. I saw parents hitting at their kids in masjid for running and make noise. I saw children running followed by mothers chasing the children. I saw parents chaining their kids in their arms. At the same time, preventing them going to masjid because they make noise, screaming etc is not the solution to the problem. While the parents should be responsible for any disturbances, the masjid committee should be more innovative on how to make this children behave and others should not take power into their own hand by punishing other people children. Imagine if one parent lose their tamper, there will be argument and perhaps physical confrontation just because of kids.

I'm taking part time studies, one of the module is about parenting and about family planning. The prof said, kids like to play, it is their job. No way you can stop them from playing and he insist parent should not stop. Aishah r.a was having a doll if I'm not wrong, the Prophet never stopped that. Of course masjid not the place, but why not? Islamic is not rigid.

Just before the last Ramadan, I received invitation from one Islamic NGO to attend a seminar on family matters. It was held in one mini auditorium. Initially I declined to go because both husband and wife are required to attend, so how about the kids? I don't want another embarrassment to see being scold because of the kids. But organiser told we are allowed to bring children including infant babies. It is a surprise. This very innovative thinking organisers have set up a mini nursery, there are volunteers (all are sisters) will be taking care for any infant babies. For the children, there was a colouring contest and drawing activities. Honestly, me and wife were able to listen to the talk without any worries. I'm sure, if masjid committee can be innovative enough they should think about the way to tackle the problem not being short sighted.

Why criticize innocent kids when there are sisters talking at the back while the imam is talking? Why make the kids look bad when there are brothers smoking in masjid compound? There are so called adults lobbying and fighting to get elected in Masjid committee. I will only agree that we should prevent the children going to masjid to avoid them learning these negative things from their fathers and mothers at masjid.

I'm sorry if I ever wronged anyone.

Allah knows best.

 

[Aapa]

Asssalaam walaikum,


I think we need to lighten up. I love a quiet and peaceful place to pray. But, I am tolerant of others.
Children grow up so fast.

I would rather have a masjid full of children and those children find the masjid a second home than have those children find joy in the homes of the kufr, nightclubs, bars, etc. etc. etc.

You make a child feel unwanted in a masjid and the duyna is waiting with open arms. Come up with activities for the children. Keep them occupied. Show a movie, have some popcorn, organize a game, talk to the kids..let them know you are annoyed.


Women work in the US because they have to; to pay bills. There is a depression over here. This is not the thread to bash American Muslim women. Yes, we have many who love the duyna but they are not the ones who attend the masjid. And I have seen many a niqabi in a suv shopping during jumma, never see them at the masjid. So please do not stereotype.

 

[saifkhan]

as-salam 'alaykum

as far as i know, rasul salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam didnt stop the children to come to mosques and he used to love them a lot.
if he salla Allahu 'alaihi wa sallam didnt stop them, who are we to stop.

khalas, mafi nikash, fahuwa sunnah.


and if we dont allow children to come, how will they be attached to mosques?

there are children, who jumps, summersault, they enjoy at their fullest, some people shout at them, most of them are okay with that. becasue out their, in the society in case of western countries, parents can not allow their children anywhere. so everyone is okay with it.

about muslim countries, yet, i think, let them come and understand, slowly they will be okay and like me and you or us

wa-llahu ta'la a'lam
wassalam

 

[msmoorad]

By screaming, disturbing and running around will the children in anyway remove the sanctity of the masjid?

salaams to all

Jee bhai saheb, they will
esp if its done on a regular basis and their parents are aware of it and dont stop them.
the musjid is not the place to play.
if we adults are required to be silent as far as possible in the musjid & NOT to talk of dunya at all-how can we then allow children to run, scream, play, laught out loudly etc in the musjid.

the musjid is the house of Allah- we should show due reverance & respect
.

children have to be disciplined- they must be ade to understand that what they can do outside-they cant do it inside. and if they are still too small to understand- they should NOT be brought at all-stay home with their mothers.

the problem also seems to be the parents & some adults-who feel its "safer" for them to do inside the musjid what they sould be doing outside.

and then we use lame excuses like the children are in a non-muslim environment all day so if they are not exposed to the musjid, then how will they feel welcome & get used to attending the musjid

masha allah-very good intentions- but this is NOT the way to go about it.

and Allah ta'ala knows best
jazakallah

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

I agree with sister Aapa.

Last March, me and few other brothers and sisters organised a two day program for youths in the masjid. They were required to stay in the masjid overnight. Do you know how many youth attended? 30 only. We targeted 200. Out of this 30, non of them seen in the masjid before. We casually asked some of them why and how they are here, they said because parents forced them. If not, they will not come. First day, the whole we spent to break the ice between us and them because they were very reserved and focus more to their mobile phones.

Similar program we conducted before this, we have our young brothers some of them are smokers and drug addicts. Few of our young sisters, are even pregnant out of wedlock. These young brothers and sisters are not someone used to come to masjid, they are very far from masjid. Parents are helpless, they come to masjid most of the time but not their sons or daughters. Why? How do I know they are coming to the masjid? Because we announced about the program in masjid and when they send their youth children to the masjid we can recognise the parents. This is my fear, it is true story. I intend to conduct another similar program next year, but all this we are doing to those youth no longer interested with masjid activities. Damaged is done, we are doing repairing work on behalf of their parents. Think about it.

 

[msmoorad]

salaams to all

we have the same situation here as well

dont think that your situation is unique so therefore u are allowed to be so lenient when it comes to etiquettes/adaab of the musjid.

which part of the US do u live in?
which city n country are you originally from?

the best thing to do is get the boys from 14 yrs & older to spend time with the Tablighi Jamaat.

also try to get the TJ involved in speaking to the parents of these children.
the parents need to become more deendaar.

the girls need to be taught about proper hijaab- they want to follow the near naked fashions of those around them and suffer from an inferiority complex.
they also dont know about the basics of deen- tahaarat, ghusl, istinja, wudhu, salaah etc

they feel left out when they see their kuffaar friends having boyfriends etc
the boys also feel that they need to have girlfriends & get them pregnant- to prove they are real men.

they have the wrong people as role models
instead of wanting to emulate the Sahaba- they want to emulate napaak rappers, actors & singers.

this thinking is most common amongst Afro Americans.
from what i know most of the arab & Indo-Pak youth dont behave in this way.

these youth should be made to sit in halqas where the stories of the sahaba are read and they will begin to understand that those they currently idolise are fakes.
all this is not a reason to allow running & playing in the musjid

from 4-7 children should not come to the musjid unless they are under close n strict supervision of their parents
it must be made clear to the parents about what is unaccpetable behaviour in the musjid and the parents should ensure their children comply
IF they cant do this- their mothers have to teach & train them at home while their fathers come to the musjid
once the child is old enough to understand & behave correctly, then only should they be allowed to come to the musjid

IT STARTS AT HOME
IT STARTS WITH THE PARENTS

and Allah ta'ala knows best
jazakallah

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I am glad that we do not have age limits for belief.