Dawah with a Born-Again Christian

Sa'diyah

New Member
asaalam alaikum everyone

I will stick to my belief. I will not hate people, disrespect people, not have them as friends because of religion. I do not have hatred or dislike for anyone, regardless of race, culture or religion. I have a very good friend who is a Hindu, she has been a blessing to me and my family. She has been there to give me support when others were too busy or just did not care. I will not go into detail about my situation, and how she has taken part in my life, but Allah (swt) knows everything. I have Christian family members, and I will not disrespect them or stop liking or loving them for anyone. How can I not love my mother, father, sister, brother etc.

Basically from what I understand from everyone is, that whe should not be friends with non-muslims, love non-muslims, get along with non-muslims. I cannot do that, my heart will not let me. If I am wrong, then let Allah judge me and if I do not deserve paradise because of it, then let God send me to hell.
 

Mairo

Maryama
So, I think it is the word "love" which is creating confusion. Also since some of these people were born in Muslim families so they have no idea what a person goes thru during the conversion process and the impact on the relationship with family members who are non-Muslim. They are totally oblivious to it. And to me this is more remarkable since Islam puts so much emphasis on love and respect for your parents and how to behave with your parents and your siblings and your family members regardless whether they are Muslim or not. We can see tons of examples in the time of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). How he loved his uncle Abu Talib even though he was not a Muslim, and the behaviour of sahabaas with their non-muslim family members etc.

I think since this is just a mute point to have further discussion on this topic, I will not post anything further on this thread.

If I have said anything wrong then please forgive me.

I second this statement made by brother Munawar.
Peace and best wishes to you all.
 

abou haytam

Junior Member
salam o alikom brother:

i come across this post and i have a question for you.

you posted:



For the disbelievers who have not known about Islam in a clear and undistorted way, then they'll be tested on the Day of Judgement, and according to their performance in that test they will either enter Heaven or Hell.

source:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=2

Wassalamu Alaikum


1-what is your evidence that they will be test ? the hadeeth about people who will be tested are four:

Anas said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Four (kinds of people) will be brought forth on the Day of Resurrection: the infant, the insane, the one who died during the Fatrah (the period between two prophets) and the very old man. All of them will speak in their own defence, then the Lord, may He be blessed and exalted, will say to a neck of Hell, ‘Come forth!’ and He will say to them, ‘I used to send Messengers to My slaves from amongst themselves. Now I am the Messenger of Myself to you. Enter this (i.e., the Fire).’ Those who are decreed to be among the doomed will say, ‘O Lord, how could we enter it when we are trying to escape it?’ And those who are decreed to be among the blessed will rush to enter it. And Allaah will say: ‘You would have been more disobedient towards My Messengers.’ So those will enter Paradise and those will enter Hell.” Narrated by Abu Ya’laa, 4224. There are corroborating reports which were mentioned by Ibn Katheer in al-Tafseer, 3/29-31.

I quot hadeeth from this source:

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=6496&ln=eng&txt=أطفال


If my non muslim frinf don t want to read qoran or even don t have any interest to islam cuz simply they are happy like they are now and they said they don t need religion to be happy...so They will be tested according to what you said?? i don t think so.

2- Is there an opinion of scholars about people who will be tested the day of juddgement.



salam o alikom
 

abou haytam

Junior Member
asaalam alaikum everyone

I will stick to my belief. I will not hate people, disrespect people, not have them as friends because of religion. I do not have hatred or dislike for anyone, regardless of race, culture or religion. I have a very good friend who is a Hindu, she has been a blessing to me and my family. She has been there to give me support when others were too busy or just did not care. I will not go into detail about my situation, and how she has taken part in my life, but Allah (swt) knows everything. I have Christian family members, and I will not disrespect them or stop liking or loving them for anyone. How can I not love my mother, father, sister, brother etc.

Basically from what I understand from everyone is, that whe should not be friends with non-muslims, love non-muslims, get along with non-muslims. I cannot do that, my heart will not let me. If I am wrong, then let Allah judge me and if I do not deserve paradise because of it, then let God send me to hell.

salam sister;

I gave you exemple of THe prophet Nooh with his son. He love his son as one of his familly that s why he seek quidance to him.

for sure you love your mom cuz it s humain being feeling but if she passed away as non-muslim don t think that your love will save her. see the exemple of our prophet(pbuh) and his uncl...

Conslusion:

if we love people it dose not mean allah love them too .
 
Assalamu Alaikum BrotherZak,


There are three main points I'd like to make clear:

1- We don not know who wrote the opinion you referred to in post #113.

2- I agree with you that God Almighty does not automatically condemn non Muslims to Hell if the message of Islam did not reach them.


I further add that the message of Islam has to reach them in a clear and undistorted way. Then if they die as non Muslims will they enter Hell to abide therein forever.


3- Where I disagree with you, however, is that you believe that we cannot call these non Muslims who are ignorant towards Islam as Kuffaar because [in your mind] being a Kaafir necessarily means that the message of Islam has reached the person and he rejected it.

A Kaafir simply means unbeliever or disbeliever. There's no insult in the word. In fact, sometimes the verb Yakfur [disbelieve] is used in the Qur'an to commend Muslims who disbelieved in falsehood.





[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 2:256]

Source: http://qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targa...ItemID=1&l=eng&t=eng&SecOrder=4&SubSecOrder=1



What I'm saying is that being a Kaafir [unbeliever] is only one of many conditions to condemn one to Hell forever. To go to hell forever, one must:

1- Be a Kaafir [unbeliever]
2- The message of Islam has reached this Kaafir [unbeliever] in a clear and undistorted way.
3- He dies without accepting Islam


If an unbeliever [Kaafir] dies without hearing of Islam at all or having heard it in a distorted way, then this person will be tested on the Day of Judgment. If he succeeds, he'll enter Heaven. And if he fails, he'll enter Hell.


To see the evidence that backs up all that I said, please read the following 3 pages carefully:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=2
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=3
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=4


Best regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum

Salaam respected brother,

I must of missed the debate between you and brother Ayman1. Here is my question to you regarding the word Kuffar. How do YOU know if someone is a kuffar based on this verse from the Quran:

"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:113-114)"

With all due respect, for the same reason brother Ayman1 posted (http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12847&page=2). I can not agree with you. I too hope that nothing will jeopardize our friendship :)
 

abou haytam

Junior Member
So, I think it is the word "love" which is creating confusion. Also since some of these people were born in Muslim families so they have no idea what a person goes thru during the conversion process and the impact on the relationship with family members who are non-Muslim. They are totally oblivious to it. And to me this is more remarkable since Islam puts so much emphasis on love and respect for your parents and how to behave with your parents and your siblings and your family members regardless whether they are Muslim or not. We can see tons of examples in the time of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). How he loved his uncle Abu Talib even though he was not a Muslim, and the behaviour of sahabaas with their non-muslim family members etc.

I think since this is just a mute point to have further discussion on this topic, I will not post anything further on this thread.

If I have said anything wrong then please forgive me.

I second this statement made by brother Munawar.
Peace and best wishes to you all.

It s not true, I m born muslim and i strugle with my parent espetaily my dad commity some Shirk and innovation in islam. I hate him when he start to do those shirk stuff, but still i love him as a father and i pray allah to forgive him and guid him. if allah don t forgive him he is going to hell( may allah forgive all of us and garnt us jannah). yes to hell even if he is my father, no shame to say this if it come to say the truth.

what i quot here is all from sunnah and qoran so it s nothing to do with feeling of born muslim.

My point of View is: if we love someone, it dose not mean that allah love him it dose not mean that our love will save him.

Exemple: Our prophet (pbuh) love his uncl as an uncl and humain being that made a lot for him, but allah don t love him and send him to hell(see my previous post for hadeeth).

salam o alikom
 

BrotherZak

Junior Member
BROTHER AND SISTERS STOP ARGUING FOR A MOMENT AND READ THIS. THE ANSWER LIES HERE REGARDING KUFAR AND DISBELIEVERS

Title:
Are Christians Mushrik (Polytheists) or Kaafir (Rejecters)?

Question:

Should Christians be considered as Mushrik because they worship the person of Jesus Christ, and there is no forgiveness for that as Allah has told us [in the Qur'an ]. Or Kaafir because Allah tells us that everyone who attributes a son to God is a Kaafir.



Answer:

Before I answer your specific question, it would be appropriate to first take a close look at the two terms "Mushrik" and "Kaafir", as only after that can we say whether the Christians, Jews or adherents of any other religion fall in these categories or not.

Let us first take the term "Kaafir". "Kaafir" in the Arabic language means "rejecter". The term "Kaafir", normally taken to be synonymous with "non-Muslim" or "non-believer", is quite different from the two terms. A "non-Muslim", obviously, is a person who does not adhere to the Muslim faith. Thus, all those who do not ascribe to the Muslim faith are "non-Muslims". A "non-believer" is generally used for a person who does not believe in God and the Day of Judgment. "Kaafir", on the other hand, is a person who knowingly rejects the truth. A person may not believe in some 'truth' for a number of reasons. For instance, he may not be fully convinced of some aspect of that 'truth' or he may have some doubts in his mind regarding that truth. However, if all doubts are removed from his mind and he becomes fully convinced of that truth, yet he persists in not accepting it or persists in ascribing to a wrong belief after becoming certain of its incorrectness, he then becomes a "Kaafir" and is no longer just a "non-Muslim" or a "non-believer".

In other words, all those people who persist in not accepting Islam after being fully convinced that Islam is the truth of the Almighty or persist in ascribing to a false belief after being convinced of its incorrectness are "Kaafirs" or rejecters of the truth. All others for our purposes are "non-Muslims" or "non-believers ".

This explanation, if considered closely, should clarify the fact that we cannot call anyone a "Kaafir" unless we have absolute knowledge of the reasons for his rejection of faith (or Islam), which we do not possess. Thus, for the purpose of this world, we should not call anyone a "Kaafir". It is only God, Who with His absolute knowledge can declare someone a "Kaafir". No one besides God possesses the knowledge that is essential to declare someone a "Kaafir".

Thus, we know on the basis of God's declaration in the Qur'an that the Jews and the Christians (and those ascribing to other faiths) during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) refused to believe in the Prophet (pbuh) even after being fully convinced of his prophethood and were, therefore, termed "Kaafir" by the Almighty. As far as the Jews and the Christians of later times are concerned, we do not have adequate knowledge of the reasons for their rejection to term them "Kaafir". God, on the Day of Judgment, shall give the decision regarding these Jews and Christians. Those, among them, who refused to accept Islam and the prophethood of Mohammed (pbuh), although they were fully convinced of it being the truth, shall stand in the category of "Kaafirs" on the Day of Judgment.

The term "Mushrik", like the term "Kaafir" has also been slightly misused. It is not just ascribing to a polytheistic belief that makes a person a "Mushrik". According to the Qur'an , "Mushrik" is one who ascribes partners to God. Christians, though ascribe to a polytheistic belief, according to the Muslim understanding of polytheism, yet they do not ascribe partners to God. They believe that there is only one God and He does not have any partners. Yet they ascribe to a belief, which in the eyes of the Muslims and according to the Qur'an is a polytheistic belief. Christians, according to the Qur'an , would have been called "Mushrik" had they believed that ascribing a son to God is a polytheistic belief and would still have ascribed to that belief.

The above should also explain why the Qur'an , even though it has pointed out that the Jews and the Christians of the times of the Prophet (pbuh) ascribe to some polytheistic beliefs has not addressed them as "Mushrik". The Qur'an has only addressed the Banu-Ishmael and other Arab polytheists who clearly ascribed to polytheism by the term "Mushrik" (as should be clear from Al-Baqarah 2: 105, Aal Imraan 3: 67, Surah Al-Taubah 9: 1 - 33, Al-Bayyinah 98: 1).

In the light of the above explanation, in my opinion, the Christians should not be called "Mushrik" or "Kaafir". We may say that Christians ascribe to polytheistic beliefs but should not call them polytheists, as the Qur'an has not called them polytheists. Likewise, we can call them "non-Muslims", but should not call them "Kaafir", as we do not know who among them has knowingly rejected Islam and who has not accepted Islam because he was not convinced of it being the final truth from God.

27th December 1999

http://www.understanding-islam.com/r...estion&qid=140
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
by name

Circumsion is part of the old covenent, in new testament scriptures through the coming of the messiah, mosaic law no longer has to be practiced in order 2 gain salvation. the mosiac laws prescribed mostly about dietary law, certian ceremonial cleanings, animal sacrifice for sins et.

i have listed in previous posts why chrisitians believe Jesus is God

the childrens characters situated around xmas (santa claus) easter bunny is not part of the holidays but is currently a tool used for commericalism of these holidays. these holidays have been aside in order so christians can join together to make a big day of celebrating parts of our beliefs. these holidays were placed on or near pagan holiday of old europe and elsewhere in order 2 stamp out pagan religions and facilitate conversions. the concepts of original sin or trinity is bascially terms used, so you dont have 2 quote the dozen of scriptures attached to each belief. i.e. how jews are going 2 have a bris or circumsion , this is not a term in the bible but its a word 2 describe the rituals and part of the bible God commands. its words used by those who are in the religion, when the followers say words or different terms, we know what part of the bible they're referring to.

"They were artificially created in the Council of Nicea to fix something, i.e. why God sent his Son to die. This is just like to hide a lie one has to lie many more times"

Death of Christ, description of someone dying on the Christ in (psalms which predates the time of christ by @ least 2000 years, yes , that version is in possesion) predates the council of Nicea. a lot of the "beliefs" of christianity some of you guys think were created in differnt committies is beliefs that existed @ least 1000 years before Christ, Christianity, or these constantine etc. if you look at the history channel which often times talks about how the bible was part together, it was mostly to determine that the holy bible only contained christian/jewish text and not gnostic text(cult text).

there is in the world's possession 2,000 year old copy of the old testament which is 95% match in words to the copies people sit in church with everyday. with things being different .. maybe someone instead of saying bread , says soft cracker. new testament, copies of originial no older than 100 years after christ's death in possession, match. so yea.... it must be man made because even if they do match , its still man made.
. In reading the English translation of Songs 5:16 it finishes the description by saying "He is altogether lovely". The words "altogether lovely" was translated from mahmad (mhmd). We'll take a closer look at this four character word, and prove this is talking about Muhammad...

First of all, the way this word is written is Hebrew is mhmd. That happens to be the EXACT same was Muhammad's name is written in Hebrew. Let's look at the spelling of this word...


It has four characters. Going from right to left they are...
Mahmad

Now, when writing in Hebrew, there is no difference between the word mahmad (Mahmad) and Muhammad (Muhammad ). The only difference is in the vowels used when pronouncing this word (Mahmad). Hebrew is an ancient language, and there are no vowels. It is made up of 22 consonants. In ancient times, the reader decided on his own which vowels to add in. It was not until the 8th century that vowels were introduced, in the form of dots and lines. However, this has nothing to do with real Hebrew. The word mahmad (Mahmad) in ancient times would most likely have been pronounced "mahamad".

According to Ben Yehuda's Hebrew-English Dictionary, Mahmad is correctly pronounced "mahamad" (not mahmad) which is very close to Muhammad.


Ben Yehuda's Hebrew-English Dictionary defines "Mahmad" as "lovely, coveted one, precious one, praised one". The correct way to say "praised one" in Arabic is Muhammad, so this is the same word!

As was stated before, the name Muhammad (Muhammad) and the word mahmad (Mahmad) are spelled exactly the same way in Hebrew, and both have the same meaning. The only reason they are pronounced different is because of vowels (dots and lines) introduced in the eigth century.

The Hebrew word for praised one is
Mahamad

The Hebrew word for Muhammad (the Arabic Prophet) is
Muhammad

In conclusion, if Songs of Solomon chapter 5 is discussing a man to come after that time, it is without a doubt Muhammad, as it even mentions his name. Any Christian who believes Jesus is the Messiah, and believes that books were sent down by God after the TaNaKh (Jewish Bible), then surely they should take into account what they just read here, and consider the Qur'an before making a decision.

Isaiah 42 describes Muhammad

1- Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Until "...delighted"

If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.

After "..delighted..."

All prophets after Jacob (pbuh) mentioned in the Bible came for Israelites not Gentiles. This includes Jesus (pbuh) (look Matthew 15:21-26, Matthew 10:5-6 and many more). And Jesus (pbuh) did not stay on earth long enough to do that. But Muhammad (pbuh) was a Gentile and he brought message and judgment to Gentiles first.

2- He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heart in the street.

Here the word "not cry" is used as "not complain about the duty that I gave him" because we see in verse 13 God says "... he shall cry". There is a difference between these two using of the word cry. Now if we read your Bible Matthew 26:39-42, we can not say that Jesus (pbuh) never complained.

But if you read the life of Muhammad (pbuh) , the history of Islam you cannot find even one complaining word of Muhammad (pbuh) about the mission (duty) that given by God Almighty.

3- A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

This is true almost all prophets.

4- He shall not fall nor be discouraged, till he had set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Until "earth:"

Jesus (pbuh) couldn't finish his mission which had continued only for ~3 years. He fall and discouraged (you will find many places in NT about this) and he couldn't set judgment in the earth, because his followers were a few and they had little faith (you will find many places in NT about this). And yet they "forsook him and fled" at the time that Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus (pbuh). And Jesus (pbuh) himself says "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence " John 18:36

But Muhammad established a state and ruled with his law that given by God. Therefore he set judgment in the earth and he did not fall and he was not discouraged.

After "earth:"

Here God says "his law", and in verse 9 says "former things come to pass". This means that he (new prophet) will bring new law. But if we read the Bible again, we see that Jesus (pbuh) says Matthew 5:17 "Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill". And if we read further we understand that Jesus (pbuh) did not come with new law.

But Muhammad (pbuh) came with new law.

5- Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which come out of it ; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein;

6- I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.

Muhammad (pbuh) is a descendent of Abraham (pbuh) and came to Gentiles.

7- To open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

"To open blind eyes". If we read verse 19 we will see more clearly that the word blind is used as idiom.

Meaning, he will show people the things that they did not know and will show people how to comprehend God and His message.

Prison is used as an idiom too. If a spirit doesn't know God and doesn't obey Him, then that spirit is in prison of Satan, and that person is prisoner of Satan. By accepting oneness of God and by obeying Him, the spirit of a person will be free and this makes that person free from prison of Satan. And in verse 8 God clearly states what He meant.

8- I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

(With explanation of verse 7) we understand that the person that God is talking about will come to a place that people worship idols as their gods. If we read verse 17, we may understand this better.

From verses 7 and 8, we understand that God is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). Because Jesus (pbuh) came to Israelites and they were not worshipping idols. But Muhammad (pbuh) came during the Jahilliya (ignorance) period of Arabs and destroy the idols. If we read verse 17, it will be understood more clearly.

9- Behold, the former things come to pass, the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

As we read in verse 4 and my explanation of it, the person, God is talking about, will come new law. And this person cannot be Jesus (pbuh) because of the reasons stated above. This person is nobody but prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

10- Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles and inhabitants thereof.

If you want to hear this new song please listen to someone reciting the Qur'an. The new song that God talking about is Noble Qur'an. If you hear how people recite the Noble Qur'an, you will understand what God is talking about.

11- Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

12- Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands.

Kedar is son of Ishmael (pbuh) (Genesis 25:13-16), and has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh). This verse (verse 11) is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). As you know Muhammad (pbuh) is descendent of Abraham (pbuh) through Ishmael (pbuh). And the cities that they inhabited are in Arabia namely Telma (Tema/Teman), Yathrib (Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah), Paran (Makkah) etc. And if you observe the ritual of Muslims (especially during Hajj), you will see that cities (Makkah and Al-Madinah) lift up their voices** and people shout and glorify Allah from top of mountains, especially Mt. Arafat**. The rock is the rock that God sent to Adam from heaven, and it is located at the side of Kaba. As you know Muslim people make 7 tours around Kaba and kiss this rock while glorifying the Lord.

**in fact, you can see this in every Muslim country, when people are called to prayer, muezzins read the Adhan (calling to prayer) that sounds like a song. And even far from city you can hear this Adhan, it will look like that city lifted up its voice. Meaning of Adhan is

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

I'm witness that there is no god but Allah

I'm witness that there is no god but Allah

I'm witness that Muhammad is His messenger

Come to prayer, come to prayer

Come to salvation, come to salvation

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

There is no god but Allah.

13- The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

14- I have long time holding my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing women; I will destroy and devour at once.



15- I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.

Here God is talking about deserts of Arabia. In desert place, mountains and hills of sand are not steady, they diminish with winds and another one appears. And you can not find rivers but small water islands as described by God.

Also this verse has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

16- And I will bring blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked thins straight. These things I will do unto them, and not forsake them.

As God says above, He did not send to pagan Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh) as stated in verse 22. Until Muhammad (pbuh), Arabs were worshipping idols, killing baby girls, drinking alcohol, gambling etc. Allah a way (Islam, unity of God) that they did not know, made Qur'an and Muhammad (pbuh) guided (as light before) them, and made crooked things (mentioned above) straight.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

17- They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that they say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.

This is exactly what pagan Arabs did, when they heard the message that given to Muhammad (pbuh) by God. They offered money, authority and many things to our prophet and he did not accept any of them. They ashamed, because they thought that all other Arabs will mock them, and will not visit the Kaba (at that time they were using Kaba as place of the idols that all other Arab tribes were using) and this would be their economic end. And they turned graven images and they asked help from those images.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

18- Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.

19- Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?

20- Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.

In this verses God talks to Christians and Jews.

In verse 18: Hear you (Christians and Jews) deaf, and look you (Christians and Jews) blind, you may see that above things are happening every day in Islamic world.

In verse 19: God says, "Who is blind or deaf? My messenger (Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers) or you?

In verse 20: You do see these things but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend. You do hear the Qur'an and you know that Muslims sing new song and Muslim cities lift up their voices and they shout from top of mountains, they glorify Me, but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend.

Indeed, Christians and Jews think that Muslims do not see the right path (blind). Even you wrote that "What Muslims do not understand...".

These verses also have nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

21- The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

In Qur'an many places Allah calls Prophet as "My friend" (friend is not exactly translation for Habeeb/Habib, because Habeeb is closer then friend but I couldn't find another word for this). And He magnified the law and people still follow his law. Jesus did not bring new law, and non of the Christians follows the law that he was following.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

22- But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.

In this verse God talks about corrupted society of pagan Arabs. And, indeed, He had not send any prophets to Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh). That's why "none saith, Restore". But up to Jesus (pbuh), many prophets had been send to Israelites.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

23- Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?

Who will become Muslim?

Conclusion:
The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." {Hadeeth Sahih Bukhari 1:1:003}


"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned." {Isaiah 29:12}

Isaiah 42 describes Prophet Muhammad.

"AND THE AHMED OF ALL NATIONS WILL COME." - HAGGAI, ii.7.

Some two centuries after the idolatrous and impenitent Kingdom of Israel was overthrown, and the whole population of the ten tribes deported into Assyria, Jerusalem and the glorious temple of Solomon were razed to the ground by the Chaldeans, and the unmassacred remnant of Judah and Ben- jamin was transported into Babylonia. After a period of seventy years' captivity, the Jews were permitted to return to their country with full authority to build again their ruined city and the temple. When the foundations of the new house of God were being laid, there arose a tremendous uproar of joy and acclamation from the assembly; while the old men and women who had seen the gorgeous temple of Solomon before, burst into a bitter weeping. It was on this solemn occasion that the Almighty sent His worshiper the Prophet Haggai to console the sad assembly with this important message: -

"And I will shake all nations, and the Himdah all the nations will come; and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. Mine is the silver, mine is the gold, says the Lord of hosts, the glory of my last house shall be greater than that of the first one, says the Lord of hosts; and in this place I will give Shalom, says the Lord of hosts" (Haggai, ii. 7-9).

I have translated the above paragraph from the only copy of the Bible at my disposal, lent to me by an Assyrian lady cousin in her own vernacular language. But let us consult the English versions of the Bible, which we find have rendered the original Hebrew words himda and shalom into "desire" and "peace" respectively.

Jewish and Christian commentators alike have given the utmost importance to the double promise contained in the above prophecy. They both understand a messianic predic- tion in the word Himda. Indeed, here is a wonderful pro- phecy confirmed by the usual biblical formula of the divine oath, "says the Lord Sabaoth," four times repeated. If this prophecy be taken in the abstract sense of the words himda and shalom as "desire" and "peace," then the prophecy becomes nothing more than an unintelligible aspiration. But if we understand by the term himda a concrete idea, a person and reality, and in the word shalom, not a condition, but a living and active force and a definitely established religion, then this prophecy must be admittedly true and fulfilled in the person of Ahmed and the establishment of Islam. For himda and shalom - or shlama have precisely the same significance respectively as Ahmed and Islam.

Before endeavoring to prove the fulfillment of this pro- phecy, it will be well to explain the etymology of the two words as briefly as possible: -

(a) Himda. The clause in the original Hebrew text reads thus: "ve yavu himdath kol haggoyim," which literally rendered into English would be "and will come the Himda of all nations." The final hi in Hebrew, as in Arabic, is changed into th, or t when in the genitive case. The word is derived from an archaic Hebrew - or rather Aramaic - root hmd (consonants pronounced hemed). In Hebrew hemed is generally used in the sense of great desire, covet, appetite and lust. The ninth command of the Decalogue is: "Lo tahmod ish reikha" ("Thou shalt not covet the wife of thy neighbor"). In Arabic the verb hemida, from the same consonants hmd, means "to praise," and so on. What is more praised and illustrious than that which is most craved for, coveted, and desired? Whichever of the two meanings be adopted, the fact that Ahmed is the Arabic form of Himda remains indisputable and decisive. The Holy Quran (ch.61:6 ) declares that Jesus announced unto the people of Israel the coming of Ahmad: "And when Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'Children of Israel, I am sent to you by Allah to confirm the Torah that is before me, and to give news of a Messenger who will come after me whose name shall be Ahmad.' Yet when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: 'This is clear sorcery.'"

The Gospel of St. John, being written in Greek, uses the name Paracletos, a barbarous form unknown to classical Greek literature. But Periclytos, which corresponds exactly with Ahmed in its signification of "illustrious," "glorious" and "praised," in its superlative degree, must have been the translation into Greek of Himda or probably Hemida of the Aramaic form, as uttered by Jesus Christ. Alas! there is no Gospel extant in the original language spoken by Jesus!

(b) As to the etymology and signification of the words shalom, shlama, and the Arabic salam, Islam, I need not detain the reader by dragging him into linguistic details. Any Semitic scholar knows that Shalom and Islam are derived from one and the same root and that both mean peace, sub- mission, and resignation.

This being made clear, I propose to give a short exposi- tion of this prophecy of Haggai. In order to understand it better, let me quote another prophecy from the last book of the Old Testament called Mallachai, or Mallakhi, or in the Authorized Version, Malachi (chap. iii. I):

"Behold I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: suddenly he will come to his temple. He is the Adonai (i.e. the Lord) whom you desire, and the Messenger of the Covenant with whom you are pleased. Lo he is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

Then compare these mysterious oracles with the wisdom embodied in the sacred verse of the Quran: "Exalted is He who caused His worshiper (Prophet Muhammad) to travel in the night from the sacred Mosque (Mecca) to the farthest Mosque (Jerusalem) which We have blessed around it that We might show him of Our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer." Ch.17:1 Quran

That by the person coming suddenly to the temple, as foretold in the two biblical documents above mentioned, Prophet Muhammad, and not Prophet Jesus, is intended the following arguments must surely suffice to convince every impartial observer:-

1. The kinship, the relation and resemblance between the two tetrograms Himda and Ahmd, and the identity of the root hmd from which both substantives are derived, leave not a single particle of doubt that the subject in the sentence "and the Himda of all nations will come" is Ahmed; that is to say, Muhammad. There is not the remotest etymological connection between himda and any other names of "Jesus," "Christ," "Savior," not even a single consonant in common between them.
2. Even if it be argued that the Hebrew form Hmdh (read himdah) is an abstract substantive meaning "desire, lust, covetousness, and praise," the argument would be again in favor of our thesis; for then the Hebrew form would, in etymology, be exactly equivalent in meaning and in similarity to, or rather identity with, the Arabic form Himdah. In whatever sense you wish to take the tetrogram Hmdh, its relation to Ahmed and Ahmedism is decisive, and has nothing to do with Jesus and Jesuism! If St. Jerome, and before him the authors of the Septuagint, had preserved intact the Hebrew form Hmdh, instead of putting down the Latin "cupi- ditas" or the Seek "euthymia," probably the translators appointed by King James I would have also reproduced the original form in the Authorized Version, and the Bible Society have followed suit in their translations into Islamic languages.
3. The temple of Zorobabel was to be more glorious than that of Solomon because, as Mallakhi prophesied, the great Prophet or Messenger of the Covenant, the "Adonai" or the Seyid of the messengers was to visit it suddenly, as indeed Prophet Muhammad did during his miraculous night journey, as stated in the Quran! The temple of Zorobabel was repaired or rebuilt by Herod the Great. And Jesus, certainly on every occasion of his frequent visits to that temple, honored it by his holy person and presence. Indeed, the presence of every prophet in the House of God had added to the dignity and sanctity of the sanctuary. But this much must at least be admitted, that the Gospels which record the visitations of Christ to the temple and his teachings therein fail to make mention of a single conversion among his audience. All his visits to the temple are reported as end- ing in bitter disputes with the unbelieving priests and Pharisees! It must also be concluded that Jesus not only did not bring "peace' to the world as he deliberately declared (Matt. xxiv. Mark xiii., Luke xxi.), but he even predicted the total destruction of the temple (Matt. x. 34, etc.), which was fulfilled some forty years afterwards by the Romans, when the final dispersion of the Jews was completed.
4. Ahmad, which is another form of the name Muhammad and of the same root and signification, namely, the "praised," during his night journey visited the sacred spot of the ruined temple, as stated in the Holy Quran, and there and then, according to the sacred tradition uttered repeatedly by himself to his companions, officiated the divine service of prayer and adoration to Allah in the presence of all the Prophets; and it was then that Allah "to travel in the night from the sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque which We have blessed around it that We might show him of Our Signs." (Ch 17:1 Quran) to the Last Prophet. If Moses and Elias could appear in bodily presence on the mount of transfiguration, they and all the thousands of Prophets could also appear in the arena of the temple at Jerusalem; and it was during that "sudden coming" of Prophet Muhammad to "his temple" (Mal. iii. 1 ) that God did actually fill it "with glory" (Hag. ii.).

That Amina, the widow of Abdullah, both of whom died before the advent of Islam, should name her orphan son "Ahmed," the first proper noun in the history of mankind, is, according to my humble belief, the greatest miracle in favor of Islam. The second Caliph, Hazrat Omar, rebuilt the temple, and the majestic Mosque at Jerusalem remains, and will remain to the end of the world, a perpetual monument of the truth of the covenant which Allah made with Abraham and Ishmael (Gen. xv.-xvii).



http://www.jews-for-allah.org/index.html


peace
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum sister Sa'diyah,


Before you say "then let God send me to hell." I kindly request that you wait for a response I promised sister Mairo on another thread.


I know of a question asked about the relationship of a Muslim to his close non Muslim family [such as mother, father, Christian or Jewsih wife...etc].


Please bear with me.


I'll try to find it. But please be patient. This might take some time.


Kind regards sister Sa'diyah,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum
 
asaalam alaikum everyone

Basically from what I understand from everyone is, that whe should not be friends with non-muslims, love non-muslims, get along with non-muslims. I cannot do that, my heart will not let me. If I am wrong, then let Allah judge me and if I do not deserve paradise because of it, then let God send me to hell.

Salaam,

Please read my previous thread carefully. You can be friends with non-Muslims, but do not take them as your alliance or protectors. You just can't love them.

"Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers."
(60:8-9)


O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust. (5: 51)

It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other. Why not be friends with your own brothers & sisters?

Just realize that having non-Muslims as friends generally is still difficult. Your faith and commitment to Islam should be pure and strong. Generally, their actions are much alienated from the teachings of Islam.
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum brother TheHumbleWun,


Please read the following:

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allâh and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allâh. They do not sell the Verses of Allâh for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allâh is Swift in account.

[Translation of the meanings of the Holy Qur'an 3:199]


A person who rejects any Messenger of Allah [including Muhammad -peace be upon him-] is a Kaafir (unbeliever):

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْفُرُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَيُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يُفَرِّقُوا بَيْنَ اللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَيَقُولُونَ نُؤْمِنُ بِبَعْضٍ وَنَكْفُرُ بِبَعْضٍ وَيُرِيدُونَ أَنْ يَتَّخِذُوا بَيْنَ ذَلِكَ سَبِيلا أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ حَقًّا وَأَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَافِرِينَ عَذَابًا مُهِينًا


Verily, those who disbelieve in Allâh and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allâh and His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, "We believe in some but reject others," and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 4:150-151]


وَمَنْ لَمْ يُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ فَإِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَافِرِينَ سَعِيرًا​


And whosoever does not believe in Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم), then verily, We have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 48:13]

وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَسْتَ مُرْسَلا قُلْ كَفَى بِاللَّهِ شَهِيدًا بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ وَمَنْ عِنْدَهُ عِلْمُ الْكِتَابِ


And those who disbelieved, say: "You (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) are not a Messenger." Say: "Sufficient as a witness between me and you is Allâh and those too who have knowledge of the Scripture (such as ‘Abdullâh bin Salâm and other Jews and Christians who embraced Islâm)."

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 13:43]


And -brother TheHumbleWun- in the links of the debate with brother ayman1, I have shown that this is not my understanding alone, but the understanding of the named scholars on those three pages.


Best regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Assalamu Alaikum brother abou Haytam,


Please give me a moment to give you the information you asked for.


Thank you
 
Assalamu Alaikum brother TheHumbleWun,

A person who rejects any Messenger of Allah [including Muhammad -peace be upon him-] is a Kaafir (unbeliever):

Best regards,

Bluegazer

Wassalamu Alaikum

Salaam respected brother,

I think we will agree to disagree. I respect and agree with scholars on just about everything, but I also have my own judgments. Based on the verse I gave you, YOU have no right to call someone a kuffar, unless you have full knowledge that they rejected Islam; it is only Allah swt that judges. Please read BrotherZak post.


ATTENTION


This explanation, if considered closely, should clarify the fact that we cannot call anyone a "Kaafir" unless we have absolute knowledge of the reasons for his rejection of faith (or Islam), which we do not possess. Thus, for the purpose of this world, we should not call anyone a "Kaafir". It is only God, Who with His absolute knowledge can declare someone a "Kaafir". No one besides God possesses the knowledge that is essential to declare someone a "Kaafir".

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=140

All praises to Allah swt and the mistakes are mine
 

Bluegazer

Junior Member
Salaam respected brother,


I have every right to do so according to the verses I have given you.


And saying that someone is a Kaafir [an unbeliever[ does not mean that I judge that specific individual to Hell. Because:


1- I do not know if the message of Islam reached him in a clear and undistorted way
2- I do not know what state he died in [i.e., as a Muslim or as a non Muslim]


Furthermore, this position [i.e., that Jews and Christians can also be called Kuffaar [unbelievers] in addition to the term ِAhlul Kitaab [People of the Book] is not only the position of those scholars I named, but of the vast majority of scholars who many consider "moderate".


And I will not leave their opinion and their understanding for an article written by someone I do not know -[with all respect to BrotherZak...I intend no disrespect].


All praise is to Allah the Almighty and all mistakes are from myself.
 

blackivy393

Junior Member
. In reading the English translation of Songs 5:16 it finishes the description by saying "He is altogether lovely". The words "altogether lovely" was translated from mahmad (mhmd). We'll take a closer look at this four character word, and prove this is talking about Muhammad...

First of all, the way this word is written is Hebrew is mhmd. That happens to be the EXACT same was Muhammad's name is written in Hebrew. Let's look at the spelling of this word...


It has four characters. Going from right to left they are...
Mahmad

Now, when writing in Hebrew, there is no difference between the word mahmad (Mahmad) and Muhammad (Muhammad ). The only difference is in the vowels used when pronouncing this word (Mahmad). Hebrew is an ancient language, and there are no vowels. It is made up of 22 consonants. In ancient times, the reader decided on his own which vowels to add in. It was not until the 8th century that vowels were introduced, in the form of dots and lines. However, this has nothing to do with real Hebrew. The word mahmad (Mahmad) in ancient times would most likely have been pronounced "mahamad".

According to Ben Yehuda's Hebrew-English Dictionary, Mahmad is correctly pronounced "mahamad" (not mahmad) which is very close to Muhammad.


Ben Yehuda's Hebrew-English Dictionary defines "Mahmad" as "lovely, coveted one, precious one, praised one". The correct way to say "praised one" in Arabic is Muhammad, so this is the same word!

As was stated before, the name Muhammad (Muhammad) and the word mahmad (Mahmad) are spelled exactly the same way in Hebrew, and both have the same meaning. The only reason they are pronounced different is because of vowels (dots and lines) introduced in the eigth century.

The Hebrew word for praised one is
Mahamad

The Hebrew word for Muhammad (the Arabic Prophet) is
Muhammad

In conclusion, if Songs of Solomon chapter 5 is discussing a man to come after that time, it is without a doubt Muhammad, as it even mentions his name. Any Christian who believes Jesus is the Messiah, and believes that books were sent down by God after the TaNaKh (Jewish Bible), then surely they should take into account what they just read here, and consider the Qur'an before making a decision.

Isaiah 42 describes Muhammad

1- Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Until "...delighted"

If we consider "mine elect" as a noun then Mine elect = God's elect = Mustafa (in Arabic) the name of our Prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAV). Otherwise it is true for all prophets of God.

After "..delighted..."

All prophets after Jacob (pbuh) mentioned in the Bible came for Israelites not Gentiles. This includes Jesus (pbuh) (look Matthew 15:21-26, Matthew 10:5-6 and many more). And Jesus (pbuh) did not stay on earth long enough to do that. But Muhammad (pbuh) was a Gentile and he brought message and judgment to Gentiles first.

2- He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heart in the street.

Here the word "not cry" is used as "not complain about the duty that I gave him" because we see in verse 13 God says "... he shall cry". There is a difference between these two using of the word cry. Now if we read your Bible Matthew 26:39-42, we can not say that Jesus (pbuh) never complained.

But if you read the life of Muhammad (pbuh) , the history of Islam you cannot find even one complaining word of Muhammad (pbuh) about the mission (duty) that given by God Almighty.

3- A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

This is true almost all prophets.

4- He shall not fall nor be discouraged, till he had set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

Until "earth:"

Jesus (pbuh) couldn't finish his mission which had continued only for ~3 years. He fall and discouraged (you will find many places in NT about this) and he couldn't set judgment in the earth, because his followers were a few and they had little faith (you will find many places in NT about this). And yet they "forsook him and fled" at the time that Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus (pbuh). And Jesus (pbuh) himself says "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence " John 18:36

But Muhammad established a state and ruled with his law that given by God. Therefore he set judgment in the earth and he did not fall and he was not discouraged.

After "earth:"

Here God says "his law", and in verse 9 says "former things come to pass". This means that he (new prophet) will bring new law. But if we read the Bible again, we see that Jesus (pbuh) says Matthew 5:17 "Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill". And if we read further we understand that Jesus (pbuh) did not come with new law.

But Muhammad (pbuh) came with new law.

5- Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which come out of it ; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein;

6- I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.

Muhammad (pbuh) is a descendent of Abraham (pbuh) and came to Gentiles.

7- To open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

"To open blind eyes". If we read verse 19 we will see more clearly that the word blind is used as idiom.

Meaning, he will show people the things that they did not know and will show people how to comprehend God and His message.

Prison is used as an idiom too. If a spirit doesn't know God and doesn't obey Him, then that spirit is in prison of Satan, and that person is prisoner of Satan. By accepting oneness of God and by obeying Him, the spirit of a person will be free and this makes that person free from prison of Satan. And in verse 8 God clearly states what He meant.

8- I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

(With explanation of verse 7) we understand that the person that God is talking about will come to a place that people worship idols as their gods. If we read verse 17, we may understand this better.

From verses 7 and 8, we understand that God is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). Because Jesus (pbuh) came to Israelites and they were not worshipping idols. But Muhammad (pbuh) came during the Jahilliya (ignorance) period of Arabs and destroy the idols. If we read verse 17, it will be understood more clearly.

9- Behold, the former things come to pass, the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

As we read in verse 4 and my explanation of it, the person, God is talking about, will come new law. And this person cannot be Jesus (pbuh) because of the reasons stated above. This person is nobody but prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

10- Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles and inhabitants thereof.

If you want to hear this new song please listen to someone reciting the Qur'an. The new song that God talking about is Noble Qur'an. If you hear how people recite the Noble Qur'an, you will understand what God is talking about.

11- Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

12- Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands.

Kedar is son of Ishmael (pbuh) (Genesis 25:13-16), and has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh). This verse (verse 11) is not talking about Jesus (pbuh) but Muhammad (pbuh). As you know Muhammad (pbuh) is descendent of Abraham (pbuh) through Ishmael (pbuh). And the cities that they inhabited are in Arabia namely Telma (Tema/Teman), Yathrib (Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah), Paran (Makkah) etc. And if you observe the ritual of Muslims (especially during Hajj), you will see that cities (Makkah and Al-Madinah) lift up their voices** and people shout and glorify Allah from top of mountains, especially Mt. Arafat**. The rock is the rock that God sent to Adam from heaven, and it is located at the side of Kaba. As you know Muslim people make 7 tours around Kaba and kiss this rock while glorifying the Lord.

**in fact, you can see this in every Muslim country, when people are called to prayer, muezzins read the Adhan (calling to prayer) that sounds like a song. And even far from city you can hear this Adhan, it will look like that city lifted up its voice. Meaning of Adhan is

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

I'm witness that there is no god but Allah

I'm witness that there is no god but Allah

I'm witness that Muhammad is His messenger

Come to prayer, come to prayer

Come to salvation, come to salvation

Allah is the greatest, Allah is the greatest

There is no god but Allah.

13- The Lord shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.

14- I have long time holding my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing women; I will destroy and devour at once.



15- I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.

Here God is talking about deserts of Arabia. In desert place, mountains and hills of sand are not steady, they diminish with winds and another one appears. And you can not find rivers but small water islands as described by God.

Also this verse has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

16- And I will bring blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked thins straight. These things I will do unto them, and not forsake them.

As God says above, He did not send to pagan Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh) as stated in verse 22. Until Muhammad (pbuh), Arabs were worshipping idols, killing baby girls, drinking alcohol, gambling etc. Allah a way (Islam, unity of God) that they did not know, made Qur'an and Muhammad (pbuh) guided (as light before) them, and made crooked things (mentioned above) straight.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

17- They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that they say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.

This is exactly what pagan Arabs did, when they heard the message that given to Muhammad (pbuh) by God. They offered money, authority and many things to our prophet and he did not accept any of them. They ashamed, because they thought that all other Arabs will mock them, and will not visit the Kaba (at that time they were using Kaba as place of the idols that all other Arab tribes were using) and this would be their economic end. And they turned graven images and they asked help from those images.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

18- Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.

19- Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the Lord's servant?

20- Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.

In this verses God talks to Christians and Jews.

In verse 18: Hear you (Christians and Jews) deaf, and look you (Christians and Jews) blind, you may see that above things are happening every day in Islamic world.

In verse 19: God says, "Who is blind or deaf? My messenger (Muhammad (pbuh) and his followers) or you?

In verse 20: You do see these things but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend. You do hear the Qur'an and you know that Muslims sing new song and Muslim cities lift up their voices and they shout from top of mountains, they glorify Me, but you don't pay attention, you don't comprehend.

Indeed, Christians and Jews think that Muslims do not see the right path (blind). Even you wrote that "What Muslims do not understand...".

These verses also have nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh).

21- The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

In Qur'an many places Allah calls Prophet as "My friend" (friend is not exactly translation for Habeeb/Habib, because Habeeb is closer then friend but I couldn't find another word for this). And He magnified the law and people still follow his law. Jesus did not bring new law, and non of the Christians follows the law that he was following.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

22- But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.

In this verse God talks about corrupted society of pagan Arabs. And, indeed, He had not send any prophets to Arabs until Muhammad (pbuh). That's why "none saith, Restore". But up to Jesus (pbuh), many prophets had been send to Israelites.

This verse also has nothing to do with Jesus (pbuh)

23- Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?

Who will become Muslim?

Conclusion:
The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." {Hadeeth Sahih Bukhari 1:1:003}


"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned." {Isaiah 29:12}

Isaiah 42 describes Prophet Muhammad.

"AND THE AHMED OF ALL NATIONS WILL COME." - HAGGAI, ii.7.

Some two centuries after the idolatrous and impenitent Kingdom of Israel was overthrown, and the whole population of the ten tribes deported into Assyria, Jerusalem and the glorious temple of Solomon were razed to the ground by the Chaldeans, and the unmassacred remnant of Judah and Ben- jamin was transported into Babylonia. After a period of seventy years' captivity, the Jews were permitted to return to their country with full authority to build again their ruined city and the temple. When the foundations of the new house of God were being laid, there arose a tremendous uproar of joy and acclamation from the assembly; while the old men and women who had seen the gorgeous temple of Solomon before, burst into a bitter weeping. It was on this solemn occasion that the Almighty sent His worshiper the Prophet Haggai to console the sad assembly with this important message: -

"And I will shake all nations, and the Himdah all the nations will come; and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. Mine is the silver, mine is the gold, says the Lord of hosts, the glory of my last house shall be greater than that of the first one, says the Lord of hosts; and in this place I will give Shalom, says the Lord of hosts" (Haggai, ii. 7-9).

I have translated the above paragraph from the only copy of the Bible at my disposal, lent to me by an Assyrian lady cousin in her own vernacular language. But let us consult the English versions of the Bible, which we find have rendered the original Hebrew words himda and shalom into "desire" and "peace" respectively.

Jewish and Christian commentators alike have given the utmost importance to the double promise contained in the above prophecy. They both understand a messianic predic- tion in the word Himda. Indeed, here is a wonderful pro- phecy confirmed by the usual biblical formula of the divine oath, "says the Lord Sabaoth," four times repeated. If this prophecy be taken in the abstract sense of the words himda and shalom as "desire" and "peace," then the prophecy becomes nothing more than an unintelligible aspiration. But if we understand by the term himda a concrete idea, a person and reality, and in the word shalom, not a condition, but a living and active force and a definitely established religion, then this prophecy must be admittedly true and fulfilled in the person of Ahmed and the establishment of Islam. For himda and shalom - or shlama have precisely the same significance respectively as Ahmed and Islam.

Before endeavoring to prove the fulfillment of this pro- phecy, it will be well to explain the etymology of the two words as briefly as possible: -

(a) Himda. The clause in the original Hebrew text reads thus: "ve yavu himdath kol haggoyim," which literally rendered into English would be "and will come the Himda of all nations." The final hi in Hebrew, as in Arabic, is changed into th, or t when in the genitive case. The word is derived from an archaic Hebrew - or rather Aramaic - root hmd (consonants pronounced hemed). In Hebrew hemed is generally used in the sense of great desire, covet, appetite and lust. The ninth command of the Decalogue is: "Lo tahmod ish reikha" ("Thou shalt not covet the wife of thy neighbor"). In Arabic the verb hemida, from the same consonants hmd, means "to praise," and so on. What is more praised and illustrious than that which is most craved for, coveted, and desired? Whichever of the two meanings be adopted, the fact that Ahmed is the Arabic form of Himda remains indisputable and decisive. The Holy Quran (ch.61:6 ) declares that Jesus announced unto the people of Israel the coming of Ahmad: "And when Jesus, the son of Mary said: 'Children of Israel, I am sent to you by Allah to confirm the Torah that is before me, and to give news of a Messenger who will come after me whose name shall be Ahmad.' Yet when he came to them with clear proofs, they said: 'This is clear sorcery.'"

The Gospel of St. John, being written in Greek, uses the name Paracletos, a barbarous form unknown to classical Greek literature. But Periclytos, which corresponds exactly with Ahmed in its signification of "illustrious," "glorious" and "praised," in its superlative degree, must have been the translation into Greek of Himda or probably Hemida of the Aramaic form, as uttered by Jesus Christ. Alas! there is no Gospel extant in the original language spoken by Jesus!

(b) As to the etymology and signification of the words shalom, shlama, and the Arabic salam, Islam, I need not detain the reader by dragging him into linguistic details. Any Semitic scholar knows that Shalom and Islam are derived from one and the same root and that both mean peace, sub- mission, and resignation.

This being made clear, I propose to give a short exposi- tion of this prophecy of Haggai. In order to understand it better, let me quote another prophecy from the last book of the Old Testament called Mallachai, or Mallakhi, or in the Authorized Version, Malachi (chap. iii. I):

"Behold I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: suddenly he will come to his temple. He is the Adonai (i.e. the Lord) whom you desire, and the Messenger of the Covenant with whom you are pleased. Lo he is coming, says the Lord of hosts."

Then compare these mysterious oracles with the wisdom embodied in the sacred verse of the Quran: "Exalted is He who caused His worshiper (Prophet Muhammad) to travel in the night from the sacred Mosque (Mecca) to the farthest Mosque (Jerusalem) which We have blessed around it that We might show him of Our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer." Ch.17:1 Quran

That by the person coming suddenly to the temple, as foretold in the two biblical documents above mentioned, Prophet Muhammad, and not Prophet Jesus, is intended the following arguments must surely suffice to convince every impartial observer:-

1. The kinship, the relation and resemblance between the two tetrograms Himda and Ahmd, and the identity of the root hmd from which both substantives are derived, leave not a single particle of doubt that the subject in the sentence "and the Himda of all nations will come" is Ahmed; that is to say, Muhammad. There is not the remotest etymological connection between himda and any other names of "Jesus," "Christ," "Savior," not even a single consonant in common between them.
2. Even if it be argued that the Hebrew form Hmdh (read himdah) is an abstract substantive meaning "desire, lust, covetousness, and praise," the argument would be again in favor of our thesis; for then the Hebrew form would, in etymology, be exactly equivalent in meaning and in similarity to, or rather identity with, the Arabic form Himdah. In whatever sense you wish to take the tetrogram Hmdh, its relation to Ahmed and Ahmedism is decisive, and has nothing to do with Jesus and Jesuism! If St. Jerome, and before him the authors of the Septuagint, had preserved intact the Hebrew form Hmdh, instead of putting down the Latin "cupi- ditas" or the Seek "euthymia," probably the translators appointed by King James I would have also reproduced the original form in the Authorized Version, and the Bible Society have followed suit in their translations into Islamic languages.
3. The temple of Zorobabel was to be more glorious than that of Solomon because, as Mallakhi prophesied, the great Prophet or Messenger of the Covenant, the "Adonai" or the Seyid of the messengers was to visit it suddenly, as indeed Prophet Muhammad did during his miraculous night journey, as stated in the Quran! The temple of Zorobabel was repaired or rebuilt by Herod the Great. And Jesus, certainly on every occasion of his frequent visits to that temple, honored it by his holy person and presence. Indeed, the presence of every prophet in the House of God had added to the dignity and sanctity of the sanctuary. But this much must at least be admitted, that the Gospels which record the visitations of Christ to the temple and his teachings therein fail to make mention of a single conversion among his audience. All his visits to the temple are reported as end- ing in bitter disputes with the unbelieving priests and Pharisees! It must also be concluded that Jesus not only did not bring "peace' to the world as he deliberately declared (Matt. xxiv. Mark xiii., Luke xxi.), but he even predicted the total destruction of the temple (Matt. x. 34, etc.), which was fulfilled some forty years afterwards by the Romans, when the final dispersion of the Jews was completed.
4. Ahmad, which is another form of the name Muhammad and of the same root and signification, namely, the "praised," during his night journey visited the sacred spot of the ruined temple, as stated in the Holy Quran, and there and then, according to the sacred tradition uttered repeatedly by himself to his companions, officiated the divine service of prayer and adoration to Allah in the presence of all the Prophets; and it was then that Allah "to travel in the night from the sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque which We have blessed around it that We might show him of Our Signs." (Ch 17:1 Quran) to the Last Prophet. If Moses and Elias could appear in bodily presence on the mount of transfiguration, they and all the thousands of Prophets could also appear in the arena of the temple at Jerusalem; and it was during that "sudden coming" of Prophet Muhammad to "his temple" (Mal. iii. 1 ) that God did actually fill it "with glory" (Hag. ii.).

That Amina, the widow of Abdullah, both of whom died before the advent of Islam, should name her orphan son "Ahmed," the first proper noun in the history of mankind, is, according to my humble belief, the greatest miracle in favor of Islam. The second Caliph, Hazrat Omar, rebuilt the temple, and the majestic Mosque at Jerusalem remains, and will remain to the end of the world, a perpetual monument of the truth of the covenant which Allah made with Abraham and Ishmael (Gen. xv.-xvii).



http://www.jews-for-allah.org/index.html


peace


well many muslims will alude to the fact that prophet mohammed was prophesized in scriptures, but there is a scripture that the message of the holy bible is finished and nothing is going to be changed or added, takin away.

Revelation 22:18-9
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

so anyone is coming forward with any scriptures that will add, to it this is essentially to christianity a false prophet
 
Salaam respected brother,


I have every right to do so according to the verses I have given you.


And saying that someone is a Kaafir [an unbeliever[ does not mean that I judge that specific individual to Hell. Because:


1- I do not know if the message of Islam reached him in a clear and undistorted way
2- I do not know what state he died in [i.e., as a Muslim or as a non Muslim]


Furthermore, this position [i.e., that Jews and Christians can also be called Kuffaar [unbelievers] in addition to the term ِAhlul Kitaab [People of the Book] is not only the position of those scholars I named, but of the vast majority of scholars who many consider "moderate".


And I will not leave their opinion and their understanding for an article written by someone I do not know -[with all respect to BrotherZak...I intend no disrespect].


All praise is to Allah the Almighty and all mistakes are from myself.


Salaam respected brother,

If you were walking on the street can you really say or tell that a person is a kuffar? Yes, we do know for a fact that there are kuffar people out there, but to randomly see someone and say they are a kuffar is wrong, because you don't know that. You don't know what a person believes. Until you fully understand what they believe then you can call them a kuffar. Basically what I'm saying is that how do you identify a kuffar without you knowing what they believe?
 

Muslim in AUS

New Member
I think we have no rights to say to ehlul-kitaab that they are kuffar straight away. It`s very rude and impolite. Indeed, we have the best example in our beloved Nabi (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam). If you remember, when someone of his (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) sahabah came to him (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) and bowed down to the Prophet (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam), Prophet (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) did not say him *you are kaafir now!* NO! He (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) first asked him why did latter do that? When sahabah said he saw that Christians bow to their priests, why muslim cannot bow to Prophet of Allah (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam)? Nabi (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) very gently and politely said, that if he (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) was in authority to order, he (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) would have ordered wife to bow down before husband, but in Islam we must prosrate ONLY for Allah! Secondly, when Prophet of Allah (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) used to give dawah to the non-muslims - he (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) never said "you are kaafir!". He (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) was a mercy of Allah and we should reflect and show his (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) gentleness and politeness to non-muslims during dawah! Nobody gonna accept Islam after rudeness or insult. In conclusion - if a person (non-muslim) after being explained Islam in right way by muslim and after that non-muslim insists on disbelief, denies Qur`an and Prophet (sallallahu aleyhi ua sallam) or insults Islam - then we can say for shure that he is kaafir. Allah knows best! Let us be merciful and gentle!
 

jamafg

Junior Member
Jazak Allah brother,
Please don't waist you time with people who seek help from hindu, not from Allah SWT
:astag:
:hawla:
salam sister;

I gave you exemple of THe prophet Nooh with his son. He love his son as one of his familly that s why he seek quidance to him.

for sure you love your mom cuz it s humain being feeling but if she passed away as non-muslim don t think that your love will save her. see the exemple of our prophet(pbuh) and his uncl...

Conslusion:

if we love people it dose not mean allah love them too .
 

jamafg

Junior Member
:ma:
:jazaak:
:hawla:
:subhanallah:
Salaam,

Please read my previous thread carefully. You can be friends with non-Muslims, but do not take them as your alliance or protectors. You just can't love them.






It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other. Why not be friends with your own brothers & sisters?

Just realize that having non-Muslims as friends generally is still difficult. Your faith and commitment to Islam should be pure and strong. Generally, their actions are much alienated from the teachings of Islam.
 
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